[Video] Homey and Doorlock

Peao

Hey, I am as suprised as you, that Homey works with my Z-Wave Danalock, yet!
But here it is:

Here is my lock:
https://danalock.com/

Taco

MarcoF

+1 for your movies and the fact Danalock is working! 

p0nts

This shouldnt work right? I thought I've read somewhere that everything related to home security should not work.

Taco

Huh, where did you read that?

The Door Lock command class isn't finished but Homey can indeed open and close locks already.

Fire69

I think it was @Emile who once said that security sensitive options would be disabled for voice control. 
If someone yells at Peao's door 'ok homey, unlock door' he might be able to get inside. 

p0nts

Taco said:

Huh, where did you read that?

The Door Lock command class isn't finished but Homey can indeed open and close locks already.

guess I misread then hehe

Taco

Ah, thats true. Would be funny to yell "Ok Homey, open the door" through the letterbox of someones door and the door unlocks, but not very secure.

tunf

sounds great and this is simple to solve, only allow this action if device xyz (nfc or ibeacon) is near xyz meter of homey or extra sensor.

jovink

@taco do you have any idea when the invited smartlock app is ready? 

Emile

We won't provide the speech commands to open or close locks built-in, but if you add them in a Flow, it's of course your choice :-)

Peao

[While being robbed  ]
I wanted to show two things: custom voice commands working and z-wave locks working in one video  
 
Furthermore all thiefs could only lock my door yet  

This is perfect for the Danalock, because it leaks the option to lock the door automaticly at a specific time. So I could now create a flow which locks my door everyday at 23:00 for example.
 

p0nts

Emile said:

We won't provide the speech commands to open or close locks built-in, but if you add them in a Flow, it's of course your choice :-)

ah yeah, thats what I mean 

Peao

p0nts said:

Emile said:

We won't provide the speech commands to open or close locks built-in, but if you add them in a Flow, it's of course your choice :-)

ah yeah, thats what I mean 

If I change the voice command to "unlock" or "lock" or try it without a flow homey replies: "For security reasons you can not unlock by voice".

Jon

Just for my clarification, @Peao, did Homey support the lock 'out of the box' or did you use/write an app for it?

Peao

Jon said:

Just for my clarification, @Peao, did Homey support the lock 'out of the box' or did you use/write an app for it?

It was supported out of the box, just had to go to Homeys Pairing-Wizard -> Z-Wave and put the lock into inclusion mode. After that it was recognized as lock and I could open it via the device screen and use it in flows.
Problems:
-Sometimes Homey loses connection to the lock and it is displayed as "not found", this happens more often if the lock isn't in use for a while. 

-The other problem is that it is hard to see the current status of the lock (opened/closed) via the device menue.

But both could be because of the yet unfinished z-wave lock command class.

Fire69

Peao said:

p0nts said:

Emile said:

We won't provide the speech commands to open or close locks built-in, but if you add them in a Flow, it's of course your choice :-)

ah yeah, thats what I mean 

If I change the voice command to "unlock" or "lock" or try it without a flow homey replies: "For security reasons you can not unlock by voice".

That's actually pretty cool! 

Jon

@Peao Oh wow, so that means that different Z-wave devices could be supported and working out of the box?
I think as long as the corresponding z-wave classes are implemented by @Homey right?
That would amazing, if it works like that.
(Up till now I had the impression that each Z-wave device had to be supported by a separately created app (by Homey or community) )

MarcoF

@Jon;
Unfortunately its not that easy. Yes the Dana lock works, but a lot(!) of other Zwave devices are not working or only partly working. What supriced me the most is that Athom received 1,5 years ago a box filled with (i guess 20+) Fibaro sensors and I only hear problems with these commonly used sensors. 

Taco

The most problems are caused when the correct association aren't setup in non Z-Wave Plus devices by the user or they try to pair a device that still is in another network.

Were working on making it more plug and play.

MarcoF

If there's so much trouble with these associations, why not make a small tutorial/page/post with some explanation on how this works?

Emile

MarcoF said:

If there's so much trouble with these associations, why not make a small tutorial/page/post with some explanation on how this works?

Because people never read tutorials anyway

https://forum.athom.com/discussion/528/received-your-homey-getting-started-guide/p1

By default Homey makes a Z-Wave association on group 1. Some devices require an association on another group. In your device manual you'll find the association groups of your device and their functions.

For example: Almost all Fibaro non Z-Wave Plus devices require an association on group 3. This is done by putting Homey's node id in group 3 in the device settings view. You can find Homey’s node id on te Z-Wave settings page.

MarcoF

@Emile ;
Forgot that.... maybe because i don't have a Homey and only read it once when you posted it.
Maybe the "getting started guide" is not the right place for Zwave info/setup and a separate topic could help?

Also why are all my Fibaro devices working OOTB with my Vera3 and should I set associations on Homey?

Fire69

Most other controllers need to add support for each device separately, which sometimes takes a long time. Maybe you were lucky you didn't buy any devices that were only just released.
Athom is taking a different approach and created a system that could potentially support all devices without specific support.  But some devices will still need a separate app because they don't behave 100% according to standards.

That's how I understood it.  Hope I'm not telling lies here 

Taco

You are correct.

fuzzybear

Emile said:

MarcoF said:

If there's so much trouble with these associations, why not make a small tutorial/page/post with some explanation on how this works?

Because people never read tutorials anyway

https://forum.athom.com/discussion/528/received-your-homey-getting-started-guide/p1

By default Homey makes a Z-Wave association on group 1. Some devices require an association on another group. In your device manual you'll find the association groups of your device and their functions.

For example: Almost all Fibaro non Z-Wave Plus devices require an association on group 3. This is done by putting Homey's node id in group 3 in the device settings view. You can find Homey’s node id on te Z-Wave settings page.

Why don't you add this as a tool tip or as additional info in the web interface zwave setup page. This would be the most logical and observed place for this kind of information. 

MarcoF

@Fire69 and @Taco ;
If this is a totally different approach then the market/users/consumers are used to, why only 6 sentences about module "config" explanation in the "Getting started guide" of the Controller?

I just downloaded the manual of a 2x1.5kW Fibaro relay and searched for associations and found 18 hits in the manual and have no idea what to do with the info within Homey. 


http://www.fibaro.com/manuals/en/FGS221-Relay-Switch-2x1.5kW/FGS221-Relay-Switch-2x1.5kW-en-1.4-1.7.pdf

• ASSOCIATION - controlling other devices of Fibaro system

?
Never worked with associations and have no idea what to do with it.....

Fire69

Honestly, me neither  

I know that associations make z-wave devices talk directly to each other instead of through the controller.  The advantage being that communication is faster, your z-wave network has less traffic and when your controller is out you might still be able to control things.

I still don't quite get why you need to set associations in Homey itself.  But I guess in time, we'll get an explanation

Taco

Like Fire69 said, association are made to make devices communicate directly with each other. So in order to make a device report its status to Homey an association has to be made with the device. Your average Z-Wave controller has a database with many devices to know with which group an association has to be made in order to receive updates from the device. We don't have that so without an app we don't know what association group to use for non Z-Wave Plus devices. This is because prior to Z-Wave Plus, manufacturers were free to choose whatever group they want for the reporting of whatever command.

Taco

Slave devices can also send controlling commands when an association with it target device is made on the right group. For example, if you make an association on a Fibaro motion sensor on group 1 with the node id of a Fibaro wall plug in the same network, the plug will be triggered by motion.

MarcoF

Just another reason to keep Homey in his box after delivery. I known it sounds dramatic, but for now if I no idea how i get my Zwave network up and running. I have no time to look on how i need to configure all my Zwave modules to get them work.....

Its OK to follow the design rules of a standard, but it should also be user friendly. And if its not user friendly, its maybe not the right choice to follow the rules.