Mobile first discussion and questions regarding the software update from 23-06-17

MarkVanWinden

Question @Emile / @athom,

I was reading the software update and red the following:

Mobile First
Most of our development power has been allocated to work on the new Homey Smartphone App. The new app will be mostly native, and a lot easier to use for both existing users and newcomers. It will make it much easier to add new features as well for us, because currently we're working with a front-end codebase of over 3 years old.

Our focus shift to mobile means that the Homey Desktop App (and all web-interfaces) will eventually be removed as of Homey v2.0. The new Homey Smartphone App will also work on tablets (Android & iPad), whereas for developers a simulator will be available in the browser.

This is a big change, but we can't stay behind. Homey should be even more easy to use than it already is, and moving to mobile is a great opportunity to do just that.

Does that mean, that I, with my windows 10 pc and tablet, am doomed? Or will there be another way to controll homey without having to buy an android or Apple device?

Hope you can answer my question, 

Thnx

lubbertkramer

@Bram can you ask in the team for some more information regarding this topic? 

tweaqer

Plus: will the change to mobile first have effect on the flow-structure? After the implementation of AND / OR (v0.1.5) I'm planning to reset my homey and restructure all flows. I would hate to have to redo it in a short while because of other changes

Nattelip

1+  

swttt

As far as how i read it, homey 2.0.0 is some time away tho. And i don't think 2.0.0 would let you need to restructure the flows (that would be a bad move of Athom if you really would need to)

glijie

+1

MarkVanWinden

bump"?

Emile

Windows Phone or Windows Desktop isn't planned to be supported as of Homey v2.0.0, because the amount of users with a Windows Phone is almost non-existent anymore and diminishing.

I'm not promising that we will support Windows 10 on Desktop, but the framework we use for our Smartphone and Tablet app (React Native) has a Windows 10 port, so maybe one day..

Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled.

Bumblez

Emile said:

Windows Phone or Windows Desktop isn't planned to be supported as of Homey v2.0.0, because the amount of users with a Windows Phone is almost non-existent anymore and diminishing.

But the amount of Windows Desktop users definitely isn't "almost non-existent", and imho this should always remain an option for those people who don't have an iPhone or Android phone, or who simply prefer not to use their phone for this kind of apps. Me, I really don't like the switch to mobile-only. I spend a large part of my day behind the computer, I use my mobile phone very little... so being able to continue using either the Homey desktop app, or the web interface in Chrome, would be a big plus for me.

On a sidenote, what are the plans for app support for Android TV boxes such as the Nvidia SHIELD ? Because once Google Assistant becomes available for the Nvidia Shield, it may well be that the Shield responds better to my voice than Homey does, so by that time a Homey app on the Shield may turn out to be very useful...

lubbertkramer

Modbreak:
Changed the topic title so we can use this topic to talk about all questions regarding this topic. Also added a link in the post from @MarkVanWinden to the update wich we are talking about

Note:
Lets keep in mind that 2.0 is far away from now and we only got a first view of what is coming and Athom is still looking to the how and when so not all questions can be answered for now 

Nattelip

software update from 17-07-2017 ? isnt it more sensible to talk about version 2 , although version two on slack means a  new homey like pi 2  

Bumblez

Just a small demographic that may be relevant to this discussion:
The number of smartphone users worldwide is currently around 2.3 billion, out of a roughly 7 billion population. That's less than 33%. The Netherlands may be an exception here, with 86% of its inhabitants owning a smartphone, but with Homey's international market, Athom will definitely have to take into account that this isn't the same in all countries (for example in Germany and in the UK, it's only around 70%).

MarkVanWinden

Emile said: loop

Windows Phone or Windows Desktop isn't planned to be supported as of Homey v2.0.0, because the amount of users with a Windows Phone is almost non-existent anymore and diminishing.

I'm not promising that we will support Windows 10 on Desktop, but the framework we use for our Smartphone and Tablet app (React Native) has a Windows 10 port, so maybe one day..

Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled.

The windows phone part I get.. my tablet runs regular Windows 10.

what blows my mind is that you say "Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled"...
If this is true, and this is the best you can come up with, Ill be very disapointed..

B3rt

This is the stupids idea i ever heard....

Dunno how other people use there devices but i only use my phone or tablet mainly when i am not at home.
Also when i look at my flows i really cannot see myself creating them on a tablet (or phone), they are much to complicated for this.
A tablet and phone screen is to small, it lacks a (decent) keyboard etc..

So dunno who thinks that configuring homey on tablet and phone only is a good idea, i am sure it is not and it will scare a lot of users (current and new) away from the product.

A decent web interface (usable on all platforms) should be present!

MarkVanWinden

@B3rt

Thats what Im afraid of, creating flows, setting up apps and using insights on my smartphone which has a 4"screen.

First the webinterface, now the windows client... Im not gonna replace my tablet just to handle homey ..

Well, lets hope they take it into consideration. Glad they dropped the bomb early. Now hope that they are open for discussion.

rtna

I use the webinterface a lot on my chromebook. It's officially not supported but works anyaway. It would be a big drawback if this can not be used anymore. I see a lot of usecases for the webinterface anyway just for the simple fact that it is platform independable.

Phuturist

I second this, it might be my lack of imagination but I can not see doing what I do now on the webinterface, work on my phone.

I seriously would like to ask Athom to allow the users to test this out and give their opinion before dropping the support for a webinterface. This can be a serious deal breaker.

DaneeDeKruyff

Unfortunately most of use already bought the product so we can't use our strongest way of voting for this development by voting with our wallet, but future customers sure can and Athom should think well going this path.

That said, I am a big supporter of better tablet (particulair iPad) support. I can see a lot of people see creating flows on a tablet as a problem, but who knows what great UX Athom can present. But at least all other functions, checking devices, system status and specifically Insights is a must have on a tablet imo.
I don't really care in what way the UI is presented, either a native app or a web interface, as long as it gives the same experience on any platform.

Bumblez

I have nothing against improved tablet support. But not instead of Windows Desktop support. I don't own a tablet, and I definitely won't go out and buy one just for this. And as others have said as well, I don't see myself using my phone for Homey setup.

RuudvB

Not supporting a standard Windows interface is a HUGE step back! @athom, remember what happened when Microsoft banned the start button from windows 8...?? Pushing for tablet/mobile usage is NOT a good idea, if the original (PC)interface will disappear. 
I own several PC's and a notebook. I never have found any use for a tablet until recently the homey Dashboard was introduced I picked up a small tablet and mounted it on the wall. You guys don't seriously expect me making flows standing in front of the wall....?

Please @athom RECONSIDER! take a serious look at the above comments and +1 additions. Don't be like Microsoft; learn from their mistakes.

Nico_GH2

I have a windows phone, a company ipad where I can only install approved apps and thus use the normal windows desktop app. Guess if this really happens have to sell Homey or try to get the Homey app on the companies whitelist which will be impossible as it's only used by one person.
Please rethink removing the desktop app.

cbh

Definitely not a good idea to ditch the window interface and go only for iOS/Android ui!
As others have mentioned, designed complex flows on a small touch screen will be cumbersome unless you make a seriously cool ui - however, I doubt it is possible to make something that can compete with managing complex flows without a mouse...

Further, I can't imagine myself sitting a whole day experimenting with flows and tweaking details on a small touchscreen - my shoulder, neck, arms and eyes would kill me before lunch...

If you want to have a platform allowing both newbies and power users you should definitely leave a possibility for working on an ordinary people!

Leaving people with the opportunity to "not upgrade" kind of betrays the whole z-wave backwards compatibility spirit - and, of course, leave the existing users who've supported and helped in sharing experiences and input for new features behind; so long and thanks for all the fish!!!

dENNtoet

Bad idea!!!! I don't want to create my flows on a small screen! I like the app as it is!

Hansman

This is really a bad idea, I'm not gonna use my tablet or phone to create or manage flows.

The current app is great!

This would be enough reason for me to move to another brand.

Please reconsider!

swttt

I'll just sit back and wait... got the confidence that they are able to create something that is user friendly enough to be used on tablets. It isn't the only brand that does this...try to setup homekit on your macbook (and there must be more examples :P )

BUT i do think they should continue to provide a desktop solution.
I just hope the tablet interface is extra.

TedTolboom

I think everyone is anticipating that the same user interface is "scaled" for mobile devices; e.g. having to drag and drop tokens into flow cards on a 5" screen will be challenging.

During yesterday's developers meet-up, Athom (@Emile) shared his vision (no screenshots shown) on this. Specifically to enable users to setup their Homey without the use of a desktop PC / laptop...

Flows from a logic perspective (WHEN, AND, THEN...) will remain the same, but the user interface will be completely optimized for mobile usage.  The new interface will first be tested in parallel to the current interface / desktop app.

Specifically the example he mentioned, on pairing a device at your electricity meter, keeping a MacBook in one hand and controlling the device in the second, triggered a recognition from my side that also the current desktop app / interface has it's limitations....

lubbertkramer

Modbreak:
With above information and the information @Emile give earlier i think it's a good time to switch this topic from more negative to postive. Just saying it's a bad idea doesn't help. Come with ideas/solutions how you would do it and help Athom creating the vision for 2.0. Athom didn't show anything yesterday because there is nothing to show (yet) because they are also still looking for the best and optimal way of giving the best user expierence 2.0 is still months away

MarkVanWinden

lubbertkramer said:

Modbreak:
With above information and the information @Emile give earlier i think it's a good time to switch this topic from more negative to postive. Just saying it's a bad idea doesn't help. Come with ideas/solutions how you would do it and help Athom creating the vision for 2.0. Athom didn't show anything yesterday because there is nothing to show (yet) because they are also still looking for the best and optimal way of giving the best user expierence 2.0 is still months away

It would be nice to have some feetback form Athom..

they only reaction we got so far is:

I'm not promising that we will support Windows 10 on Desktop, but the framework we use for our Smartphone and Tablet app (React Native) has a Windows 10 port, so maybe one day..
Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled.

To ease the sentiment, give us some feetback, counter our worries.. get the conversation going, dont be silent.

If they got suggestions, sure let us give feetback, if we suggestions, tell us what you think about it.

that would be nice..

chrisnash

Whilst in on total agreement about keeping the desktop app, have any of you seen Tasker on Android? It's far more powerful than the Homey interface and very quick to use with a small bit of practice. So there's still hope!

lubbertkramer

MarkVanWinden said:

lubbertkramer said:

Modbreak:
With above information and the information @Emile give earlier i think it's a good time to switch this topic from more negative to postive. Just saying it's a bad idea doesn't help. Come with ideas/solutions how you would do it and help Athom creating the vision for 2.0. Athom didn't show anything yesterday because there is nothing to show (yet) because they are also still looking for the best and optimal way of giving the best user expierence 2.0 is still months away

It would be nice to have some feetback form Athom..

they only reaction we got so far is:

I'm not promising that we will support Windows 10 on Desktop, but the framework we use for our Smartphone and Tablet app (React Native) has a Windows 10 port, so maybe one day..
Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled.

To ease the sentiment, give us some feetback, counter our worries.. get the conversation going, dont be silent.

If they got suggestions, sure let us give feetback, if we suggestions, tell us what you think about it.

that would be nice..

The're is nothing more to share as multiple times said, they are looking for the how. There is no more to be said. 2.0 will come in months so when they have more they will let us know in the Friday update or respond here.

MarkVanWinden

Well nothing to share isnt true,, they dropped the bomb what the statement:

here we go again:

I'm not promising that we will support Windows 10 on Desktop, but the framework we use for our Smartphone and Tablet app (React Native) has a Windows 10 port, so maybe one day..
Until then, upgrading to Homey v2.0.0 can always be disabled.

that's nothing? thats what all the fuzz is about. Not that they got nothing to show, there was a statement made.
People have worries. Thats the thing we're pointing out here.

Is that so hard to believe?