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Mobile first discussion and questions regarding the software update from 23-06-17

124

Comments

  • bvdbosbvdbos Member
    i must say programming flows on homey is harder as c++ because of lacking jip and janneke documentation
    Really? I have no problem creating flows, the system is made for amateur users...
  • NattelipNattelip Member
    edited July 2017
    dream on , @bvdbos you are one of the most experienced users of Homey, You have learned by hard the complete slack discusions the complete forum discussions , the Athom github repo , the complete homey documentation Of Homey. we have the zwave and node wizard at slack , but  in my opinion you are the Homey wizard, so dont think you are an average user. I think if there would be an exam Homey you would have the best result of us all. 

  • undergroundunderground Member
    edited July 2017
    I finally have found the solution. The statement that phones are more popular than PCs/laptops and that therefore in the future only phones are supported whas the final push for me. I bought a Rasberry Pi with a z-wave gen5 usb stick.
    I am running domoticz on it. It took me half a day I have to admit, but the result is that I have now an exact copy of the flows/devices etc. as I had with homey. Not missing one bit. (had mic and led ring already off)
    Domoticz have great apps for the phone AND a good web interface for the PC/laptop.
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    edited August 2017
    I too am seriously considering switching to a different solution. I recently lost my entire setup due to a faulty firmware update (1.31), and after receiving it back from Athom (factory reset), I haven't bothered to start adding any of my flows again... I'm going to wait until I know what direction Athom is going with this (much of what I bought Homey for wasn't really working all that well anyway, so fact is, I don't really miss not having my flows/devices). If Athom is indeed going mobile-only, then there may soon be yet another Homey up for sale...
  • Well, personally I don't expect anythng before the end of the year so would be a waste to wait till then. And even then: Athom knows it will have to provide a solution for non-mobile users so I'm confident this will turn out right... As for losing everything after an update: Were you on stable? Then afaik you're the only one where updating went wrong :(
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    edited August 2017
    No, I wasn't on stable, that's why I haven't made a big deal of this here on the forums (although it is my opinion that even on experimental, a deadlock situation such as the one I was in shouldn't be possible). And no, I wasn't the only one who suffered from these bugs ("a bug that could cause the system time to get out of sync" and "a bug that could cause corrupted settings")

    Anyway, as I said, right now I don't really miss my flows/devices. If I see Athom release any updates that are really useful for me, I might reconsider and give them a try. Until then, I'll just wait until there is a bit more known about the direction that this is going. And I definitely hope you're right about them providing a solution for non-mobile users.
  • I would suggest creating a great app AND keep the desktop version as well :-)



  • PimBliekPimBliek Member
    edited August 2017
    PimBliek said:
    PS it would be a lot better if you could focus on long promised IP-camera support, zwave thermostat support etc.... Promises two years old!!! 
    @PimBliek image token support will be added in 1.5 and Z-wave thermostat support is already there; multiple apps supporting Z-wave thermostats in the App Store 
    Really? Why can't I still don't use a very common Z-Wave thermostat? Secure / Horseman.

    EDIT: I see there was an app add very recently. Will try this out NOW :).


    Still think the mobile only strategy is a very bad idea tho...


  • PimBliek said:
    PimBliek said:
    PS it would be a lot better if you could focus on long promised IP-camera support, zwave thermostat support etc.... Promises two years old!!! 
    @PimBliek image token support will be added in 1.5 and Z-wave thermostat support is already there; multiple apps supporting Z-wave thermostats in the App Store 
    Really? Why can't I still don't use a very common Z-Wave thermostat? Secure / Horseman.

    EDIT: I see there was an app add very recently. Will try this out NOW
    Yep.
    Ther thermostat class has been released longer ago and based on this several thermostat devices are already implemented in the apps in the App Store.

    @Priknr1 made the Horstmann app based on this class and is quite active in supporting it. 
  • @PimBliek Can't resist on this one :) 21st of March the Horstman app was published on apps.athom.com :)
    https://forum.athom.com/discussion/comment/48753/#Comment_48753

    But not strange that you missed that one... And for now I think the mobile-only strategy sucks too but I'm confident we'll be suprised by Athom and everything will turn out right :)
  • Priknr1Priknr1 Member
    edited August 2017
    @PimBliek  With very recently I think you mean the latest version? ;) Because I built support for the SRT321 and HRT4-ZW months ago ;) I have them myself :)

    If you are not referring to the SRT321, and your device is not recognized, let me know what device you have.

    For the SRT321 and HRT4-ZW I have made a how-to on how to add them.

    https://forum.athom.com/discussion/comment/42270/#Comment_42270
  • I'm sorry to see that there has been no consideration in keeping PC support, but abbondoing it completely from Homey as of version 2.0.. so much for listening to there users. 
  • Still confident it's a matter of communications and there will be a suitable desktop solution as well...
  • Me to, but living in the dark is no fun... 

  • lubbertkramerlubbertkramer Member
    edited September 2017
    Robebar said:
    I'm sorry to see that there has been no consideration in keeping PC support, but abbondoing it completely from Homey as of version 2.0.. so much for listening to there users. 
    Robebar said:
    Me to, but living in the dark is no fun... 

    What a dark world you live in then xD But as always first wait and see and judge then. Or are you always judged before you can proof yourself? :) 

    Tonight i had the chance to get a first look at the internal alpha of the new mobile app on Emile his phone. It's looking very good, still need a lot of UI designing but it was fast and it worked native. Switching zones was easy, searching for devices by name or state was working and from a device i could see all information, insights will be there and you can drill. For example from device -> to app -> to all devices using that app. Music, making flows was not working yet, they focues first on the devices and then they take a new feature and work on that. At the end it's a build ready for release in stable.

    I don't know if i'm going to like the new mobile/tablet app when it's released after using the webversion all this time but first i will test it myself before i will judge Athom about this vision.

    I also talked with Emile about the desktop, they still havent made a final decision about how / what afther the mobile release and he said there are in the community of react native who are busy with OSX/Windows ports so who knows what will come after the mobile app. Yes at first they focus on mobile but after that, who knows :)

    Edit:
    They give the freedom to make your own frontend by the API so you can always proof Athom wrong and do it better :) 



  • Whether the tablet/phone edition is cool or not - I still wonder how it's possible to ignore the storm of objections from powerusers - and from ordinary users...

    Homey is extremely powerful and beats competitors by far - why are you discarding the input from the people supporting this?
    No problem if you priorities the tablet/phone version - but just as a sign of gratiotiousness
  • @lubbertkramer said "What a dark world you live in then xD But as always first wait and see and judge then. Or are you always judged before you can proof yourself?  "  good you put the smiley there !!... but no, that comparison does not work for me.. (talk about Judging)

    Defending the Mobile app, will not get rid of the PC users!  and yes I would like to know the pad ahead, as i'm spending more money and time every month to create a home automation solution arround Homey, and it would be nice to know if I can continue this after 2.0

    "They give the freedom to make your own frontend by the API so you can always proof Athom wrong and do it better

    Yes if Homey was made for the techies only, but some of us are not at the level to create that type of solution... an to be honest, if you take a feature of a consumer product away after sales, and tell your customers that they could develop that themself sounds plain wrong.

    and this is not just a feature like speech, or IR, this is a major design change in how users interact with there system for manny of the current users. 

    And as mentioned by many before, even if they make a smashing app that works as advertised. there will be a lot of people that stil would like or prefere to use there PC to configure there system, and this will not go away, not even if as hard as you try to convince PC users that they are wrong, or not paitiance or even "Judging"

    my 2c
  • lubbertkramerlubbertkramer Member
    edited September 2017
    Robebar said:
    @lubbertkramer said "What a dark world you live in then xD But as always first wait and see and judge then. Or are you always judged before you can proof yourself?  "  good you put the smiley there !!... but no, that comparison does not work for me.. (talk about Judging)

    Defending the Mobile app, will not get rid of the PC users!  and yes I would like to know the pad ahead, as i'm spending more money and time every month to create a home automation solution arround Homey, and it would be nice to know if I can continue this after 2.0

    "They give the freedom to make your own frontend by the API so you can always proof Athom wrong and do it better

    Yes if Homey was made for the techies only, but some of us are not at the level to create that type of solution... an to be honest, if you take a feature of a consumer product away after sales, and tell your customers that they could develop that themself sounds plain wrong.

    and this is not just a feature like speech, or IR, this is a major design change in how users interact with there system for manny of the current users. 

    And as mentioned by many before, even if they make a smashing app that works as advertised. there will be a lot of people that stil would like or prefere to use there PC to configure there system, and this will not go away, not even if as hard as you try to convince PC users that they are wrong, or not paitiance or even "Judging"

    my 2c
    The no camp is always saying as many said before but do a simple search on Gihub, on the forum or even in this topic, multiple topics like this topic that are asking for more mobile just like on github so yes and no both have their sound and Athom has chosen a direction by the feedback that has been given everywhere. They never please everyone with what they do or prioritize 

    You got your answer in the latest update about the heading of Athom and i give you the information about that it's not definite what's coming after mobile. Just think out of the box instead of already complaining/seeing problems about something you don't know how it works or how it wil be. Live positive :) For example, every android app can be run on a desktop (windows) pc so i don't see the problem when you really want to use a PC even before you have seen the mobile/tablet app that it's still possible.

    Every company takes turns along the way, for example Spotify who abandons Safari and forces OSX users to use the desktop app or an alternative browser. 

    And again i end this post with judge and decide for yourself after you have tested the  new mobile expierence that will come before 2.0 will be rolled out :) 
  • In a way resistance is futile - and probably everything will turn out to sunshine and blue skies.

    Still, I recently testet a z-wave controller from a Norwegian company, who based setup and use only on tablet/phone-apps.
    The interface wasn't that bad (the controller was far from reaching Homey, however), but as I sat there, I really felt, how tedious it was to make stuff on a touchscreen in that format - and longed to go back to sitting with a mouse, a screen and a keyboard.

    Oh, I really, really hope, that at least Athom will make some kind of emulator making it possible to run the app on a laptop...
  • @cbh
    yes, it seams that way, and the Borg are here... and yes there are many people who want a better mobile app, as do I, but that does not mean, they would like to abbandon the PC interface.. 
    and yes the current emulators for pc, are crappy, load site programs, add adds and even contain malware, how secure will that be !!? 
    and examples like spotify no longer supporting Safari, at least they gave alternatives for the same platform.. 
    And you know, the Borg do not listen, they only say resistance is futile.. 
    so I rest my case in hoping that Athom is not the Borg, but understands that what has been written.. 
  • PC's and Mac's are for content creation, tablets are for content consumption.

    I'm fine to use my tablet or mobile for switching on or off a light, talking to Homey etc.
    But making complex flows, doing setup, etc etc... NO. 

    The Homey Desktop app is fine like it is and shouldn't be abandoned. I've said before that I think this would be HUGE mistake...
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    edited September 2017
    Homey v2.0
    Backup & Restore will be introduced in this release. This will also be the release where all desktop interfaces will be removed and the new Homey Smartphone App will be available to everyone.
    (from Friday's software status update). Doesn't sound like they've learned anything from the comments here, or that they have any plans to offer us an alternative.

    @lubbertkramer I definitely understand those who want improved mobile support, but I absolutely do not see why it has to be one OR the other, when the current desktop interface works fine and is preferred by a group of people. Why not offer BOTH options, then let the user decide which he wants to use?
  • @Bumblez
    There was a discussion on slack last saterday, if you are able have a look there from Saterday the 16th, 6:41pm
    It did not make me feel better ..
  • @Robebar ; thanks, I just had a look, and that indeed doesn't look very promising. It's sad, just plain sad, that they're in the process of alienating an (imho) fairly large group of users, because they feel that they've made something wonderful, and they just cannot accept that there's a group of people who don't use smartphones that much (or for this kind of functionality).  It's not that I don't have faith in Athom's ability to create something nice on a smartphone... but I spend a large part of my working day behind a computer screen, and I only use my phone a couple of mins a day (and for actual phone calls!). Being forced to use a smartphone for these things would be a big PITA... definitely NOT looking forward to that.

    So I guess "owning a (fairly recent?) smartphone" will soon be added to the installation requirements for Homey?

  • @Bumblez  yes exactly.. its al about wait and see and ignoring how people would like to interact. Working ergonomic behind a desktop and not with a smartphone close focus, and auto correct in the wrong language, thick fingers on a small screen.. interupted by messages and calls. they will make a smashing app I'm shure of that. but that does not change my view.
    Also some of the statments made about supporting and not obligated to maintan older versions are premature, and they need to change a lot on the logistic part, every webshop there description has to change way before roll out, and all the packing of the existing Homey's at retail also. Today I picked up a new Homey at retail, just for that reason. Anyway let see what direction this goes and how the rest of the users react when the time is there. 
    until then just continuing with expanding my home automation with Homey. 
  • MarkVanWindenMarkVanWinden Member
    edited October 2017
    guys, this topic is dead, they made their choice whatever we come up with on this topic. This was a promise since the kickstarter campaign.
    "he Homey Smartphone App is available for iPhone and Android users. Users of other operating systems can use their browser to access and configure Homey on the go."
    Sure Homey got its advantages:
    But since I backed the kickstarter campaign changes were made, promises were not uphold.

    The leverage they gotis that there is no competition. So screw the backers since there is no where else to go. (no easy choice at least)

    - A year delay..
    - NRF2401+ (later changed to NRF905) - AFAIK this part was completely ditched.
    - IR... cant get it to work, but eh, that is probably my fault. (As well as not buying an android/apple tablet)
    - voice recognition.. this was very ambitious, somewhat too ambitious, unfortunately.

    I’ve seen people buy new houses, and asked me about some domotica advice. Since this last announcement, I’m hesitant to advice homey.. And that if you would know that I’ve been advocating this device since the kickstarter started.


  • Exactly Mark. I really do not understand why Athom is focussing on the wrong stuff (ditching a perfectly working desktop app and spending thousands of hours on a mobile app) while they neglect the stuff they have promised us years ago... 
    Somehow they seem a bit ehr... distracted, with their head in the clouds...

    I mean, I'm glad Z-Wave is finally working. I saw some nice improvements. But most improvements have come from the community by new apps that added cool functionality. I haven't seen huge improvements from Athom themselves. Voice did work for a while but has gone worse again since the last 2-3 updates or so. Hit and miss again, like before. I was finally happy with it (in English that is!).

    So my conclusion: guys and gals at athom... FOCUS!
  • NattelipNattelip Member
    edited October 2017
    i just wnat to say, i can image some forum and slack members creating flows on their mobiles  driving a car on the highway with speed 120 miles an hour, how many disabled and death homey users and innocent users of the highway will that give. It is strange having a cabonmonooxide sensor at home and creating a flow on hte highway. Just stick to the desktop version.  there are 25 % more traffic accidents in he netherlands the last few years due to the use of mobile devices in the traffic. 
  • Argh.. I am glad Athom thinks desktop's are for creating.. that includes creating flows, right?!
    An app is not going to do it for me (and I am a fulltime app developer! )

    I'd love to be able to run some custom firmware on the homey, perhaps just use the hardware in domoticz. Early 
    I'd love for Athom to opensource their stack, so we can just rollout something that does work for advanced users. Have a feeling it will just turn into a beautiful white paperweight for me.. 
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