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  • Interesting, both have loads of petty cash, let's see where that leads to!
  • tunftunf Member
    Let's hope Homey is finished on time so it is on top of the market. To see these companies going this way is at least the confirmation that there is a large market for this product.
  • How is this competition ? No protocols to talk to other devices.
  • Voice?

    80% of the people want a system that just works.
    If Google creates a ecosystem and things like Lights, Heating, Cams, Locks works out of the box.... then multi protocols are not needed :smile: 

    The already own Nest (Heating, Cam, Smoke/Fire detection).
  • honeyhoney Member
    Hypothetically let`s say they introduce a new product it would support wifi devices (limited product range, expensive, battery hungry), bluetooth LE (very promising but no even more limited product range), Z-wave-Zigbee maybe. IR, 433Mhz, 833Mhz highly unlikely. Furthermore it would be introduced in US and just much later in EU (like nest, echo, etc).
    However Amazons move is very interesting. Will result more inventors to jump into this field + the exisiting players (zipato, fibaro etc..) may add this capability in the near future. That is why athom should stop keep postponing the introduction otherwise they wont be able to gain a critical mass before the others will go out to conquer the market. Homey might be the best product we can see on the horizon at the moment but it wont stay like that for long. Everyone wants to be in the IOT bussinees and most players have much faster development pace than 2 years.
  • Echo works with the most ''common'' protocols, for most users enough and it really works
    http://www.amazon.com/Amazon-SK705DI-Echo/dp/B00X4WHP5E
  • markmg said:
    Echo works with the most ''common'' protocols, for most users enough and it really works
    http://www.amazon.com/Amazon-SK705DI-Echo/dp/B00X4WHP5E
    Show me where you can create flows ? Show me all these protocols ? They all use bridges but not all things have bridges.
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    edited March 2016
    The point is that it don't need all these protocols if all works in one ecosystem.

    Most of the "normal" non techie/geek customer just want a system that works and it doesn't care them if it uses 1/2/5/10 protocols, it just need to work.

    With BLE/WiFi/Zigbee/Ethernet its possible to connect 90% of the normal customer devices/appliances.




  • MarcoF said:
    The point is that it don't need all these protocols if all works in one ecosystem.

    Most of the "normal" non techie/geek customer just want a system that works and it doesn't care them if it uses 1/2/5/10 protocols, it just need to work.

    With BLE/WiFi/Zigbee/Ethernet its possible to connect 90% of the normal customer devices/appliances.




    But it only adds a interface like voice for device. Not real automation right ?
  • What's home automation?
    What do you expect from homey/google/nest/others on this point? 
    And the didn't announce a product with specific a feature set, so it's a bit dark on what the product can/will do for the customer. 
  • MarcoF said:
    What's home automation?
    What do you expect from homey/google/nest/others on this point? 
    And the didn't announce a product with specific a feature set, so it's a bit dark on what the product can/will do for the customer. 
    I don't expect anything from them. I know it's not possible to create flows. They are good as voice interface. But I can't create something that is automated. You can't set that if someone enters the lights go on and kettle starts. If someone else enters something else happens. Voice is only one part... Real automation is what I am after. Till now I only see homey combines all that.
  • Nest can set the heating setpoint based on presence and distance :wink: 

    But Homey combines a lot of stuff that through!

    Real automation == AI
  • tunftunf Member
    As long as consumers are stil thinking that setting and reading the house temperature is automation i'm still in the perception they schould have more to do.

    In my opinion automation is smart triggering. AI is a bridge to far nowdays but within a couple of years, i go with MarcoF.
  • In my eyes domotica is keeping up the real live and not only the most common scenarios.

    If sun down then sunscreen close
    and
    if sun up then sunscreen open

    BUT

    If we are in the backyard i want the sunscreen to stay open.

    Also i want the TV-corner to power-off (eliminate standby usage) after 22:30 (Sunday-Thursday) and 00:30 (Friday and Saturday).
    But if we have a party OR sexytime OR we are just up late then the TV-corner needs to be/stay on.

    I think this is something real world and MM/Google/Nest/Yahoo consumers also expect from real home automation.
    The current mainstream domotica isn't able to do these thing out of the box and the average consumer don't have the time/experience/knowledge to make these custom flows.

    AI can say;
    Hey its the first weekend after the birthday of Marco so there probably will be a Party and lights go off if .......

    I'm not working all fridays, so how do i need to program Homey to set Coffee, heat the place etc on Friday?

    AI == Real Home Automation
  • kitkatkitkat Member
    edited March 2016
    MarcoF said:
    Nest can set the heating setpoint based on presence and distance :wink:" alt=":wink:" height="20" /> 

    But Homey combines a lot of stuff that through!

    Real automation == AI
    You can automate 1 device at a time in its own world. But you cant create a trigger like a variabel And based on that change allot of devices at once. You can trigger based on user,time other devices state. That is not possible with other devices. You all seem to forget that all others are only interfaces of voice.
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    edited March 2016
    pfff i'm a Domotica retard..... 
    Why should i need variables when the ecosystem/controller does everything for me?

    Why should I(!) flip a present boolean on entering/leaving a place if the system knows precisely where i am?
    Or why should I program that the sirene should sound when smoke is detect if the system can do it for me out of the box?
    Do i need to give another 100+ examples?

    I'm challenging you to create only 2(!) flows on homey that can handle the sunscreen and tv-corner flows as i described and which can be exported and imported. 

    If you manage this one/1(!) week(!) after the Pre-order delivery, I take care of delivering 1 beer crate of your choice (available at Albert Heijn) at your home by Albert.nl(if you give my your adres)!




  • MarcoF said:
    pfff i'm a Domotica retard..... 
    Why should i need variables when the ecosystem/controller does everything for me?

    Why should I(!) flip a present boolean on entering/leaving a place if the system knows precisely where i am?
    Or why should I program that the sirene should sound when smoke is detect if the system can do it for me out of the box?
    Do i need to give another 100+ examples?

    I'm challenging you to create only 2(!) flows on homey that can handle the sunscreen and tv-corner flows as i described and which can be exported and imported. 

    If you manage this one/1(!) week(!) after the Pre-order delivery, I take care of delivering 1 beer crate of your choice (available at Albert Heijn) at your home by Albert.nl(if you give my your adres)!




    Pff what is your angle here ? What are you trying to accomplish ? Competition of finished products or the beta state of homey vs finished products ? You don't need to be a retard or nerd. The flows are not possible with other devices end of story. You will get an app that can handle individual stuff of a light or bell. But how would you combine them together ? The products you are talking about their main selling point is to change the interface from pushing buttons in apps to talking to the device. But you still can't let them do things out of their own right ? You need to talk to them. But I will rest my case because I thought we are having a serious discussion about products but it is just bashing Homey as if Athom will move faster or think OMG we need to do something. :neutral: Seriously guys grow up.
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    edited March 2016
    I try to talk about Domotica....
    I would like to see/discus where Homey and his competitors are standing.

    On the hardware/component level Its not what i want, its what the average customer can and wants to buy/do.

    Athom goes to MM and MM also sells HUE (bridge and WiFi makes it 100% work in 99% of the homes) so for the Amazone/Google/Nest/etc there is no need to support Zigbee(Homey has a Zigbee chip onboard and, for so far, isn't using it ). In another area MM sells AndroidTV's which can be controlled over WiFi. Every webshop sells NetAtmo which makes it possible to monitor temp/humidity/co2 in your house over WiFi.
    Same example for other devices/components. 

    Z-wave is a great protocol, but also have a lot of downsides.
    Zigbee is more closed (and regulated), but is more clear to manufacturers to follow the technical guidelines.
    433 is widely used, but it also have a major downside on the protocol end.

    For now its a great choice to support multiple protocols, but i hope the future will bring a more flatten domotica protocol world. 

    Athom has the key and I hope its the key to a more stable/(protocol)flatten/generic domotica world.

    I would like to see a more generic Domitica world because handling and maintaining >5500 lines of custom codes on my Vera3 is a pain in the ***. 

    The crate of beer still stand :smile: 

  • kitkat said:
    markmg said:
    Echo works with the most ''common'' protocols, for most users enough and it really works
    http://www.amazon.com/Amazon-SK705DI-Echo/dp/B00X4WHP5E
    Show me where you can create flows ? Show me all these protocols ? They all use bridges but not all things have bridges.

    Google it, lots of movies on YouTube, read the specs, people using IFTTT
    And its really and i mean fast compared to Homey

    like i say it really works, something you still cant say of homey.

    And for most users it dos the job, there are more things with bridges then not cuss most allready have domotica in their house.  just as homey its a add on to existing domotica for 90% of the users.

    homey is walking behind in working domotica world at the moment, antoher example samsung smartthings

     
  • MatjaLipuMatjaLipu Member
    edited May 2016
    Alexa testing tool https://echosim.io
  • MatjaLipu said:
    Alexa testing tool https://echosim.io
    Does it understand Dutch language?
  • jvreedejvreede Member
    markmg said:
    kitkat said:
    markmg said:
    Echo works with the most ''common'' protocols, for most users enough and it really works
    http://www.amazon.com/Amazon-SK705DI-Echo/dp/B00X4WHP5E
    Show me where you can create flows ? Show me all these protocols ? They all use bridges but not all things have bridges.

    Google it, lots of movies on YouTube, read the specs, people using IFTTT
    And its really and i mean fast compared to Homey

    like i say it really works, something you still cant say of homey.

    And for most users it dos the job, there are more things with bridges then not cuss most allready have domotica in their house.  just as homey its a add on to existing domotica for 90% of the users.

    homey is walking behind in working domotica world at the moment, antoher example samsung smartthings

     
    Yeah, I have to disagree with your specific example there. Smartthings has been unstable for months (cloud outages) and has developers leaving quite vocally. On top of the that the cloud based logic is slow... so while other projects might be doing well or better than homey, Smartthings would not be a good examples...
  • Best way to deal with competition is to let the product 'speak' for itself. I really hope the development of Homey will go quick enough to survive. So far Homey does not live up to my expectations but I'm patient.
  • BTW it would be nice to get a project timeline and some fixed milestones next to the weekly updates. Getting the voice control at the level of Echo would be my highest priority. Just did a test at echosim which was quite impressive.
  • BTW it would be nice to get a project timeline and some fixed milestones next to the weekly updates. Getting the voice control at the level of Echo would be my highest priority. Just did a test at echosim which was quite impressive.
    You tried only English or also different language(s)?
  • English.
  • Just did a test at echosim which was quite impressive.
    With your PC microphone, where you were seated 15 cm away from? Great, thats comparable to speaking through Homey via the Android App, which has no problems as well.
  • Just did a test at echosim which was quite impressive.
    With your PC microphone, where you were seated 15 cm away from? Great, thats comparable to speaking through Homey via the Android App, which has no problems as well.
    That is a fair point.
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