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The Homey Community has been moved to https://community.athom.com.
This forum is now read-only for archive purposes.
The Homey Community has been moved to https://community.athom.com.
This forum is now read-only for archive purposes.
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New shipment date for Homey?
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have a nice weekend athom team! You guys deserve it!
Why not may we, the backers, share in the problems there are, and share and try to solve some things.
\we have waited long enoungh now. This is not nice. When you said there will be a update, you might as well direct tell us there is another delay. Bad weekend here
- More Homeys with current software will mean a lot more questions. Why?
- Not every user reads this forum
- Not every user reeds Github
- This will, with current software-state, result in a shit load of questions, emails, telephone calls and Git issues
- This in turn will actually slow down Athom in their effort to fix things
So for now, I do understand the decisions. I have been very critical in the recent past, and I still am. But this new update is quite precise, it answers quite a lot of questions, and it even gives the pre-orders a nice choice. I think that's a good one and it answers requests people had.
Am I still worried? Yes I am. I'm still worried that some bugs might be so hard to crack that they won't be able to crack them in 2 or 4 weeks time. I'm also still worried that before Athom got it retail-ready they run out of money. That would be very unfortunate, since without Athom's servers Homey will just be a nice paperweight.
Am I still confident? Yes, but hesitant. There's still a long road ahead. As far as I can tell from current reports from Geek Backers, the product is very far from usable in most use cases. But I continu to believe in the product and in the capabilities of Athom. Let's just hope it all works out.
A little surprised that you are shipping preorders before being able to give a " full retail experience" Another bold move considering the way a consumer is protected in the Netherlands. But hey, this whole thing was a bold project from the start
@Emile Thank you for allowing a Beta batch. This made my day. Just as @PimBliek mentioned above there are user who are not following the forum/git, people just expecting a ready product. Many of those can be in the KS tier. It would not make sense to hold back the preorder beta testers/developers because of them. It would just unnecessary hold back the people months who could help to make place this project on an exponential curve. I understand that KS should enjoy some priority but the first come first served rule was not applied so far. Could there be a Beta KS+Pre-order batch than the polished product batch??? It would end this misery here and you would have much more than 20 user apps + tutorial, videos etc ready for civilians. It`s a win-win.
I would really like to test and fine tune the Siemens app.
But i pre-ordered. And i would send preorders out to myself if i was Emile. It seems just to risky. You can return a purchase like this for any reason (the box smelled funny would be my pick). It is not a logical strategy to send an product you know is not doing as promised and not knowing when it will do as promised to a group that can simply undo the purchase.
What I actually meant with 'so true' is that we should realize the immense effort and accomplishment the guys at @Athom have reached so far. And that it could have gone much worse if you look at some other (prestigious) KS projects.
There are a lot of people saying that we shouldn't criticise Athom because they are new to this game and are not familiar with running a business, I'm pointing out that they are not the only ones and there are others that perform better, so why can't we expect the same?
That's why I beleive we can and have to be critical, in a normal and respectfull manner. If Athom would listen to us, they can benefit.
What is most asked for, within reason, is better communication, and managing expectations. That is something they should have learned during the time the campaign ran on Kickstarter.
Thanks for the excellent update. Along with others here, I am very glad that the suggestion here on this forum by @honey ;to offer backers and pre-orderers a choice in receiving Homey earlier was picked up by you guys.
@All
Good to see the positive reactions to Athoms communication. And actually nuance in some posts!
On the other hand there are people who feel nothing Athom does is right or enough. Athom has shown they read along with us here, and have actually implemented some of the suggestions posted only to be rebuted with: oh , but now we want something else!
Even communication has improved but still, for some it is not enough. I fear it will never be..
It is a trust issue. By giving Athom your money at any stage where the product is not in retail you have effectively said: I am trusting Athom to deliver a quality product to me when it is ready. IHMO you should have been aware of and have thought about that when backing (or pre-ordering, all the same really) Homey. Maybe you should think about what the term "Backer" actually means. It is not some random made-up word but actually comes from backing\supporting something\someone.
It does not mean you own a piece of the company or have bought a say in telling them what to do. You can make suggestions, as can anyone else here, but that's it.
Homey is a highly complex hardware\software system which has been developed from the ground up by a startup that is doing this for the first time. To not expect any bumps or setbacks (and therefor changes in delivery date) in that context is ludicrous and IMHO plain stupid. To start complaining about it now is a sign of trust issues and\or not having thought about the implications. It also displays a complete lack of understanding in (the development of) software systems. Why-O-Why on earth did you even think to support this project?
"Athom said week X so if MY Homey is not shipped in week X I'm going to..."..
It is not a simple cake they are making, people.. They are baking something people have never tasted before. And altough they have a good idea where the dish is headed, they are still tweaking with the ingredients and baking time. By backing or pre-ordering you have CHOSEN to be first tasters to help improve the dish.
But if you don't trust the cheff you're going to be in a world of hurt because you think you'll be poisoned. The cheff can communicate all he\she want and even give you the recipe, you will still feel every bite can kill you.
And then there are the expectations people have. May I remind everyone that, contrary to common belief, an expectation is something that lives in your grey matter? Some expectations voiced here do not even have a basis in Athoms communication. Where has Athom said they are aiming to do better than other KS-projects? It is an expectation Athom may or may not meet. And if they consciously decide to put resources on other matters then communication, so be it. Accept it, stop whining about it and examine your own thought process a little.
As for the captains ashore here who have never even seen a ship let alone built one: why don't you start up your own KS project and company? Let's see how well you'll be doing..
Indeed, Athom is pulling off something only few other Kickstarter projects have managed to do. You may not agree with some decisions, but everything they do and communicate says: "We are set on delivering a high quality product and we are listening to our customers!". It is far more than other companies or KS-projects are doing.
Everything is a matter of perspective. Perspective is a choice.
If is said pre order now,and you may get youre homey summer 2016 no one would have pre-orderd
they mislead consumers to get extra cash like that
Or if the website said back our product also diffrent story, but selling as a pre-order is a complet diffrent way off promoting youre product. because you give consumers a feelings they are buying a finished product.
Dont forget they never send one email to the pre-orders, no matter how you say it, its misleading.
Also saw someone from athom saying firmware stable and many users dont have problems, its not true i bought mine from marktplaats and its no where near finished, not that i mind, i know what i was getting in to but lots probbaly dont, they just saw a promotion and a shiny website saying pre order now and get it soon ... Over a year later stil not one deliverd.
BUT as the other topics a forum is source to put in the questions and request every single one of us has.
I totally agree on markmg.
I'm in project management for IT at a car manufacturer, which means it's far away from professional and how a real developer should work. But if I have a functional hardware which has to work with several devices and software that should be offering special functions, that is what has to work in the first place and by telling we are ordering our cases, it says:
"The important stuff is working we now can focus on the last finishing touch, making homey look good. And even if not everything is working we will handle that during the time we get the non-functional hardware."
All the functional stuff can be handled all the time only plain hardware and software.
There was a kickstarter campaign, so there was money and even if you don't know how to handle a professional project management there are plenty of others which can help you at the basics.
YES the new update was a step in the right direction, especially offering the beta pre-order , BUT
the status page... everything is "operational"
the pre-order on the homepage says:
"Pre-order Homey
Homey will ship around March 2016. Reserve yours now!"
COME ON!
YES you are kickstarters and don't have to be pro, but learn from your mistakes.
YOU HAVE a big community and certainly there are people who are willing to give you some good advice, IT IS NOT about complaining its is about making you better.
- Was there a chance I would loose my money? Yes, that was an accepted risk from the start.
- Would there be setbacks? Yes, highly likely even so I should anticipate for that.
- Was the expected delivery date set in stone? No, again an accepted risk.
- Do I have confidence, based on Kickstarter and company backstory, that they will deliver what they say they will? Yes!
Even when pre-ordering at his moment, those are questions a potential buyer should ask themselves and come up with their own answers based on Company, Kickstarter and Forum information. That last question arguably being the most important one.And by the way, Athom's last communication was sent to me by email. I am not sure about the previous ones, so I can't comment on that.
It's not about defending Athom. It's not about defending Homey. It is about the tone\language of some posts which takes the fun out of reading this forum for me (and others apparently).
Sure you can raise issues about Athom, or Homey, or both. Please do, as it will only make Homey better.
But I, and apparently other with me, think some posts simply take it too far. You'd expect the attitude\language in some posts to come from a feetstamping 5-year old not getting what he\she wants, not from an adult who has made a conscious decision to Back a company\product. Who then have expectations that are not met and can't seem to handle that other than in the afforementioned way (not aimed at anyone personally here, just making a general observation).
There is a difference between raising an issue and incessant complaining.
I understand @Schippelkopf 's point of view concerning the delivery date on the website. I personally think people should do research before buying into a €300,00 product that is not in stores. That means examining the website and reading the forum\kickstarter, from which you can deduce March is not a likely delivery date. And I think most people interested in Homey will do just that, as it is still a geeky niche product. That being said, I agree it would be better for Athom to point to the Kickstarter communication for a delivery date. However, instead of screaming "misleading" and "unprofessional" one could also write an email or discussion to Emile saying: "Hey guys, your website says delivery in March. I am not sure you are going to make that. If you agree, wouldn't it be a good idea to change that date?" or something along those lines. Different tone and IMHO much more likely to get picked up on by @Emile ;;
or @Athom ;;. That way you are actually contributing something. I am sure you see the difference.
But even if they don't react to such a request, that is their choice for which they would probably have reasons you may not be aware of. Changing March to May may have legal implications which they have to look into first and therefore can not be done on a whim. You have brought your point to their atention, accept it and move on. If you are not running the company you do not have the full picture.
I am also sure they are aware of other issues raised, regarding management. Sometimes solving an issue takes a bit of time, or making a choice they are not yet ready\willing\able to make. They may be working on it right now or have consciously decided to save something for a later date. Do not expect changes to happen overnight and do not expect Athom to communicate every little detail. Some of it may be withheld because of the competition. Again, if you are not running the company you do not have the full picture.
If you think you can do better and help Athom, by all means, apply for a job! I'm sure they would welcome the experience you bring. Put your money where your mouth is. But don't stand by idly and only criticize.
And re: the status page: for me it is clear it displays only the technical operational state, i.e. Homeys supporting systems are up and running (does it answer a ping). It does not say anything about functional operational state (will a voice request sent to voice processing actually send back the correct text). I'd think your experience would enable you to make that distinction.
I think\hope we can agree we all want to see Homey come to life as soon as possible. While I certainly understand some of the frustration (I am not blind to issues), all I am saying is that some posts only seem to bash Athom and\or Homey, and that simply is not in Athoms, nor Homeys, nor our collective interest.
It is in our collective interest to make the Homey userbase as large as possible (speaking long term here), not only from an app-development point of view (more users -> more & better apps). The more you are bashing Homey\Athom, the less likely this is to happen. Therefore hateful posts are not in anyones interest. It is that simple.
I find that the tone of some posts here is affecting the tone of my posts, the previous of which in this thread could have been viewed as quite harsh in hindsight. I did not mean to offend anyone personally. However, I stand by the general gist of my post and would kindly ask all to keep this forum a good place for everyone. Not least of all for the people at Athom who I am very sure are working their butts off and are just as eager to get bugs fixed and get Homey working well. And after that, ready for retail.
Let us all support them in doing just that!
My €0,02
When Athom is too busy to communicate, they're complaining about the lack of communication.
When Athom does find the time to communicate, they're complaining about the delay.
If Athom would ship their Homeys right away, in the current state, they'd be complaining about the things that don't work yet.
Apparently 'patience' just isn't in their vocabulary. I'm curious... realistically, what would Athom have to do right now to stop the complaining (and I said 'realistically'... things like 'Ship a fully functional Homey right now' aren't realistic!) ?
I'm done with all of this....
I don't see Homey replacing my Vera3 within the upcoming 4-6 months and maybe I someday buy a secondhand second revision Homey from MP or so.....
By guys!
Sorry to hear that, Marco. I know Vera has its fair share of problems too, and you've been interested in Homey for a reason. I sincerely hope you will reconsider.
I'm done with this Soap, the love stories, beautiful predictions, whining, complaining, forum polarization, bugs and promised (but missing) features and that nobody can or may say anything about these shortcomings because it results in endless flaming.
But mostly i'm done with the almost 2 years of promises and the fact that i still have no Homey.
My Vera3 is rock solid, the WAF is 101%, we don't mis voice (and hearing all the voice thinky's we are also not going to mis that in the near future).
I also came to the conclusion that the FlowEditor isn't going to fit my needs and Homey is to closed on custom code, so i'm going to mis a lot of stuff or I need to make tons of small custom apps to solve all these things i can't do with the floweditor.
My PM is sent 30min. ago and if I make a decision, then i stick to it.....
(to others: if the general tone in this thread/forum is discouraging you, then I advise you to just stop reading this thread - or even the forum altogether - completely forget about Homey for a couple of months, and check back by the time you are (pleasantly) surprised by Homey arriving at your doorstep...)