Version 0.8.18

Crunch

I think the cycle they are doing now is correct:
- Make update;
- Test internally;
- Push to experimental channel;
- Push to stable.

Nobody wants bricked Homey's, which is potently the worst thing a bugged update could do. 

From what I read .18 is now in testing and .19 is already in the works, so this testing doesn't delay further updates.

TheoDeKoning

Keep in mind that a update in the Homey basic software can make it needed to adjust one off more app's.

Fire69

It's a very big update.  The previous one almost bricked several Homeys.  It's been a week since the previous update.

I don't see why you are complaining?  
As @D says, it could be way worse than 'it will not work'.  You could end up with a Homey not starting anymore.

Give them some time to test it.  If there is a big update every 1-2 weeks, there's nothing wrong with that.

For my current controller, there is a beta update every 3-4 months.  Stable took over 6 months to arrive!

MarcoF

@D;
What could happen in your eyes?

The Firstbatch backers told here the received sometimes multiple updates a day(!).
0.8.17 was released short after delivery(if i'm right)
0.8.18 is planned for the upcoming week

This "small" update is just bugfixing....

Here's a quote from superice and shows how Athom's versioning work;

The versioning scheme is pretty simple. Using format x.y.z, x signifies major changes, for example an entire rewrite of the app. Y signifies new features, or major changes. Z are bugfixes mostly.

Crunch

But when there are a lot of bug to fix, an update takes some time ^^

MarcoF

Geeks are now on:    0.8.17
Athom is testing:    0.8.18
Athom is working on: 0.8.19

So work on 0.8.18 is done, versioning says its only bugfixing, so no minor of major changes.

Fire69

MarcoF said:

This "small" update is just bugfixing....

"Small" and "bugfixing" is relative.
Just a couple of bugs makes it a small fix.  There is a pretty long list of fixed things now, so I'd call it "medium"

Plus, they probably (hopefully) fixed something to prevent the boot-problems they had with .17.
So I would call it an "important" update.

MarcoF

if its a important version with a big impact change, the should do a minor update.

nevertheless some more info/communication around the updates could save the day  

JohanKuster

D said:

JohanKuster said:
Worst thing that can happen that it will not work after the update ;-)

Nope, not the worst thing that could happen. Much worse things could potentially happen, so good to see they're not just putting out updates for the sake of it.

JohanKuster said:

I would rather see more frequent updates (like promised by Athom!), skipping the beta channel.

Where did they promise this?

For the sake of it? Don't they have nothing to deliver? It is quite common these days in software development that you deliver frequently in regular intervals. The way of working is called Scrum. The bigger the release the more problems you can expect. Keep it simple and small.

Kickstart update 27:

What to expect to work, and what not
The Homey you're receiving is in an early bèta state. This means that bugs will be found. Probably even a lot. But hey, you knew that when you'd backed us, right? ;-)

Please report all (non-major, as described above) software bugs to our issue tracker: https://github.com/athombv/homey/issues. This keeps it clear for others so we can focus on solving them easily. I hope to ship at least a few updates per week, so keep the auto-updater on ;-)

MarcoF

@JohanKuster ;

1. +1

Vincent

MarcoF said:

@D;
What could happen in your eyes?

The Firstbatch backers told here the received sometimes multiple updates a day(!).
0.8.17 was released short after delivery(if i'm right)
0.8.18 is planned for the upcoming week

This "small" update is just bugfixing....

Here's a quote from superice and shows how Athom's versioning work;

The versioning scheme is pretty simple. Using format x.y.z, x signifies major changes, for example an entire rewrite of the app. Y signifies new features, or major changes. Z are bugfixes mostly.

This was for the Android app. I'm not sure the same goes for the Homey software.

MarcoF

Both Android App and Homey Firmware use an "beta channel" like release structure and would be very strange if the use two different release strategies within the company for the "same product".
(i know in the eyes of a product owner the Android App is a totally different product compared to Homey)

D

JohanKuster said:

For the sake of it? Don't they have nothing to deliver? It is quite common these days in software development that you deliver frequently in regular intervals. The way of working is called Scrum. The bigger the release the more problems you can expect. Keep it simple and small.

But Athom is not just dealing with software. If you're just writing software, it's much easier to push out updates than when you're also dealing with the hardware side of a product. Simple and small is not always possible, the Homey is a complex product. Athom seems not to be using Scrum and they are free to do so.

I hope to ship at least a few updates per week, so keep the auto-updater on ;-)

"I hope" is not a promise. Some things take time to do right and maybe they will start pushing out more updates once some critical hardware related bugs are fixed.

MarcoF

come on guys.

The have "solved/closed" more then 100 Git issues for one(!) update.....

The also could have done that with 10 updates.....

The close the ticket to get a better few on the issues, but if the take 10-20 issues and make a update for these issue.... then you also have a predictable/known release/versioning scope and more Scrum like (small and fast fixes/updates).

I hope to ship at least a few updates per week, so keep the auto-updater on ;-)

I read it as "at least 2 to updates and possible more"

 and don't forget the  

Bumblez

I assume that, next to fixing the issues, they also have some kind of internal test procedure in place to let somebody (other than the person who made the fix) test them all, and to ensure that it doesn't break anything else. Maybe the bottleneck for delivering multiple updates a week is there, and not in the amount of fixes that have been made?

DaneeDeKruyff

"I love forums "

All this discussions are leading no where, it's a lot off speculating, that's not good for the sentiment and the product. Athom needs to up their communication!!

They don't need to answer every single post, that way information gets scattered. It looked like it was going better when the sticky post about the Shipment & Software Status (https://forum.athom.com/discussion/555/shipment-software-status#latest) was post, but it's not. Last post there was on the 8th of februari.

It's so little effort to make a post there on a regular basis (Considering current problems and rumours here on the forum I'd be posting in that topic at least every other day) It doesn't have to be a complete essay, just some lines describing what problems are faced, how they're solved and what's up next. I'm very sure this will make a lot of people very happy and will send good vibes towards Athom and its staff!

MarcoF

"I love forums "+1

Uranday

JohanKuster said:

For the sake of it? Don't they have nothing to deliver? It is quite common these days in software development that you deliver frequently in regular intervals. The way of working is called Scrum. The bigger the release the more problems you can expect. Keep it simple and small.

Scrum does not mean do a release every day and potentially mess everything up. Scrum would mean, make a sprint of 2 tot 3 weeks, determine a set of features you are going to implement and make that release happen. (the simple version). So in this scenario, they indeed don't do scrum... If they would do, we would only see an update every two to three weeks.

PimBliek

@Uranday  Doing Scrum does not mean you do 2-3 week sprints. It's the most used timebox, but it's not a rule. At this moment, in the project I'm in, we have 1 week sprints and this works for our project.

MathijsFrencken

Uranday said:

JohanKuster said:

For the sake of it? Don't they have nothing to deliver? It is quite common these days in software development that you deliver frequently in regular intervals. The way of working is called Scrum. The bigger the release the more problems you can expect. Keep it simple and small.

Scrum does not mean do a release every day and potentially mess everything up. Scrum would mean, make a sprint of 2 tot 3 weeks, determine a set of features you are going to implement and make that release happen. (the simple version). So in this scenario, they indeed don't do scrum... If they would do, we would only see an update every two to three weeks.

Scrum is a best-practice framework. Just because the theory tells you the sprints should be 2-3 weeks, doesn't mean that applies to every company that implements this exact framework. The board on trello kind of suggests they work with a scrum/agile variation.

JohanKuster

Uranday said:

JohanKuster said:

For the sake of it? Don't they have nothing to deliver? It is quite common these days in software development that you deliver frequently in regular intervals. The way of working is called Scrum. The bigger the release the more problems you can expect. Keep it simple and small.

Scrum does not mean do a release every day and potentially mess everything up. Scrum would mean, make a sprint of 2 tot 3 weeks, determine a set of features you are going to implement and make that release happen. (the simple version). So in this scenario, they indeed don't do scrum... If they would do, we would only see an update every two to three weeks.

Thanks, we use Scrum a few years now... You can have 1 week sprints ;-). In fact I don't care what they use as long as they communicate to everybody what and when they are going to deliver. Regular intervals and STICK to the dates. I think blocking issues should be delivered ASAP as an EBF/intermediate. At this moment they can make everybody happy if they deliver more frequently. According to the schedule we have to wait untill next week for .18, I would like to be that a bit sooner. 

JohanKuster

Enough said....

MarkVanWinden

JohanKuster said:

 At this moment they can make everybody happy if they deliver more frequently. According to the schedule we have to wait untill next week for .18, I would like to be that a bit sooner. 

Hear hear,

would be nice to start working with homey  

PimMeijer

So looking forward to "Ok homey. Wikipedia scrum" . Athom... do the thing you have been doing so far. I appreciate the regular announcements. It has been a joy so far. Thanks and good Luck!!

MarcoF

+2 for @MarkVanWinden ;

JohanKuster

Anybody on Experimental release has the .18 already?
I guess it will not come today or tomorrow. At least I expect some pre-anouncement. 

The radio silence from Athom makes me very sad 

Martijn

I'm sure Athom is very, very busy with developing new firmware to solve bugs.

But I agree I am also waiting for some news about the performance of the new firmware in their own test channel.

MarcoF

+1 for communication 

Emile

I'm going to ship 0.8.18 this Friday to the beta channel  

TarikFaik

@emile can't wait