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Supporting Schüco Building Skin Control? (also: Will Homey support KNX or not?)

cbhcbh Member
in Questions & Help
Hi,
the Schüco Building Skin Control include quite a lot of cool features on building automation in their product line.
They seem to work with a proprietary standard per se, but integration with KNX should be possible.

There is varying info on the site whether KNX will be supported or not:
In september 2014 @Emile wrote "KNX is on our to-do list for after the launch of Homey!" (https://forum.athom.com/discussion/comment/245/#Comment_245)
In different discussions it is stated, that it will not be...
Somebody have written about different interfaces that might make it possible - but, as far as I can find, there's no app for it (yet).

In a way, I'm not that interested in KNX-support in itself - more if there's a way to integrate stuff from Schüco - so if somebody know if it is possible to do that with Homey in one way or another, that's the real interesting part of an answer (as I'm in the business of renovating my house in the near future...)

Regards,
Chr.

Comments

  • GeurtDijkerGeurtDijker Member
    Again not Athom B.V. .... ;-) 
    I just read the Github Issue, 
    But as Techie I am interested in many things like protocols etc. So let see If I get your question correct and like to get questions answered and things clear. 

    If I Read your request correct:  
    - you want to know if Homey will support KNX in the future (The Github  Issue)
    - because you want to connect Homey to "Schüco Building Skin Control" (the Forum post)

    I read the dutch and English Wikipedia's and scanned the ( TL:DR  http://www.knx.org/media/docs/Flyers/KNX-Basics/KNX-Basics_en.pdf ) tried to find some answers, 

    First: in the pre-release (before HW was finished and Firmware was only "pre-alpha" beginning 2016) I have the feeling almost everything was on the To-Do list of Athom. Guess they know about available resources and development cost better now,  And focus on the mayor used Homey Automation and mass available Domotica first. 
    So, Maybe it is fallen of their list (I don't see it on their Trello public Timeline https://trello.com/b/aYBmd9Ru/athoms-public-timeline-for-homey ) and I think it is still a valid question is something will be supported. 

    Reading about KNX I see it is a standard (open) communication protocol for Home Automation, but has different physical communication media: a TP (based on a standalone 2-wire bus cable), PL (= Powerline), RF - Wireless on 868.3 MHz and KNX-IP (Ethernet IP). 

    Of course only the latest two can maybe be implemented in Homey with the current Hardware, possible by an Homey App. 

    Reading the KNX PDF I read it uses 868.3 MHz with FSK, Altrough Homey listens  on that frequency (maybe I read somewhere 868.4 but should Pick up the signals on .3 ) It listens only to FSK short after sending an FSK signal. It uses to listen ASK most of the time. 
    I guess this makes sending and learning KNX-RF an option but receiving KNX a problem!

    KNX IP should probably not be a problem as it already has an IP connection using WiFi and there are already some KNX Node.JS implementations. 

    Than the last part, the devices! 
    I don't know if KNX is limited to a default list of devices or that different vendors implement different capabilities. For Homey after KNX-IP or KNX RF is implemented (by Athom or a community member writing an App) it should also support the devices you use. 
    Just like Z-Wave: adding a Z-Wave device to Homey is (almost) always possible but using it form Homey to the full capability need's a device specific App!

    Searching for the Schüco Building Skin Control and KNX that you mention brings me to a site (https://www.schueco.com/web2/de-en/fabricators/products/building_automation/systemuebergreifend/schueco_building_skin_control )  that shows nice DIN rail devices, ans a PDF but no free technical information. (NO I am not going to register ;-) )
    Scanning the PDF  and reading the introduction gives me a new view on their products:
    Schüco Building Automation (SBA) provides automation for large buildings, (not quite the segment for Athom/Homey) and:
    <Quote>
    >  And last but not least, all the components in other automation
    > systems can be installed quickly and easily via gateways such as KNX.
    </Quote>

    In my opinion SBA  already provides the feature that you request for Homey: A gateway to use KNX devices. 

    That doesn't make it necessarily possible for an other KNX system (or Homey with a KNX-IP App or something else behind a KNX gateway that couples Ethernet and the bus KNX-TP ) to use or control the devices in SBA. 

    beside that, Who needs KNX? (Yeah I know there are always Geeks and freaks who want to use something that could be possible.)
    To use your Schüco Building Skin Control App you already need the Schüco Automation Manager (Art. No. 263245) and IP Gateway (Art. No. 263302) .  What I read the Automation Manager is a server/service  on a PC with Windows Vita, 7 or 8 . And Homey could  communicatie on Ethernet with both, so no KNX necessary. Just an App!
    As stated above, an Homey App supporting KNX-IP would probably not solve your problem!


    TL:DR
    (and this info is form after the first reaction it is on our list !!)
     
    To answer some questions: 
    Will Homey support KNX?
    - What KNX so you want? IP or KNX-RF 868.3 MHz FSK ?
    As KNX is not very popular in Home Automation,  
    KNX-RF => Community, and as it is only sending probably very difficult. 
    KNX-IP => Also Community, but I think only someone with an IP-to-KNX gateway and development skills can/will build something for a specific gateway or device as it is almost useless unless there is a device direct Ethernet coupled. 

    Will Homey support  Schüco Building Skin Control  ?
    for what I read  on the Schüco site it has an excellent automation manager and own app. 
    As Schüco is not very popular in Home Automation, you have to do it yourself or wait for someone in the community that implements it. (I guess you should not count on it!)  
  • cbhcbh Member
    Cool!!!
    My utmost respect for going through the subject like you do - and thank you for taking your time, @GeurtDijker!

    No doubt integration with KNX is not something easy, even I could figure that out - and I agree, that KNX (IP) is probably the only version of interest. Unfortunately, you are probably also right forecasting whether Homey will support KNX or not given the arguments you list.

    As I wrote myself, the interest in KNX was only due to what I could read about Schüco making KNX integration possible and thinking that could be the way around.
    Your discovery (or ability to find it, at least) regarding the IP-interface is really interesting and something that I will look into - already took contact to Schüco today - perhaps they could/would provide data making it possible to figure it out.

    I don't have the skills to make an app at present and could of course choose to use stuff from Schüco when renovating my house and thereby force myself to learn enough to make an app (although I think that would be some kind of a kamikaze-like decision to make).
    Initially, I will try to get more information from Schüco - and figure out if I dare go that way :-)

    (I'm aware of the flowchart - but since Emile had posted like he did, I thought it relevant to ask - happy you share that opinion - at least sort of :-))
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