Re: Software status

Pils

I think it is very disappointing that @Emile or @Athom is planning to skip the weekly status update to once every two weeks.

From the start of this project Athom did communicate too little and too late. The community has asked them many times to do better on that, and they promised to do better, time after time. After several emails from me (and i am sure from others) there finally came the weekly software status. I could hardly wait until it was friday, every week.

That was a good step in the right direction! Not good enough if you ask me, because i also had ask them to react on questions and situation which are mentioned on the forum.
I suggested that every person working for Athom should spend at least 10 minutes a day reading and answering on the forum. That would be so great. Then people feel that someone is reading it, other than the forum users.

So @Emile if there is really not enough to mention on a weekly basis about the software, which i find very weird. Then you could us that time to react on the main fears, problems or questions you and your team have read on the forum.

And because it is a "closed" post, you don't get reactions from other forum users. So you keep it clean as a message from Athom to the forum users.

So please reconsider your idea, and even communicate more than you did before! 

phil_s

i can only underline every sentence @Pils just wrote!

jorden

I partly agree, mostly to keep everyone satisfied. As long as there are regular posts / updates, the community stays motivated.

On the other hand I also understand that if there is no or little news, it takes up too much time to tell that there is no or little news.

KoenMartens

I disagree. Having people eagerly waiting and then complaining when there is too little news to tell is unmotivating for everyone involved. I have seen multiple times that people complain Athom is doing too little right after a weekly update is posted which basically said 'we're working on a lot of different things'.
Changing the weekly to a bi-weekly update would counteract that. This takes time of Emile's hands and keeps the community satisfied, as Emile actually has something to tell.

Your second suggestion (i.e. all employee at Athom taking 10 minutes to look and answer on the forum) is something I wholehartely agree with.

ZperX

I understand that the software status closed. You don`t need to go through hundreds of questions and complaints to find the valuable posts. However Athom has left the forum good couple of months ago and withdraw to slack. they only react on a topic if it explodes from anger. Now it looks like that Athom has decreasing it`s presence on Slack as well.
To be honest Athom is not that bad with communication when compared with other startups and kickstarters like Neeo, Tado, or not to mention projects like Alyt.
I think the real problem is the ignorance. Just one example the voice recognition. They haven`t tackled the issue since the product has been launched. Ignored the github issue. And than eventually thy post this arrogant comment that they don`t even plan to fix it, but you should learn to speak and turn your home into an a studio and anyway it works on dutch. Thanks, really nice.

MrDutchfighter

Athom is way better in communication when they really need to. When users really need them, they are there. I've been waiting on a status update from Fibaro because there latest update bricked my HC2 for almost a week (after direct contact via email). That's bad customer support.

Let them focus on the important stuff and actually release some cool features instead of telling us they are working on them and they are 'almost' done

MHubert

@MrDutchfighter ;
Please ask the people with the rrod or proud issues. Many of them waited days and in some cases weeks on a reaction and/or replacement homey. 

RuudvB

The keyword here is customer support. Since homey is now available in stores, there _SHOULD_ be a good functioning customer support "department". This can of course be handled by a single person,  but it should be handled. The general complaint I read on the forum is that customers (yes, we are customers) are felt left in the dark.

Athom has taken a big step in "going public". With that, there come other obligations. Customer support being definitely one of them....

I think we have an happiness employee now @Annemarie ? I would suggest, do your work and make us happy 
 

KoenMartens

RuudvB said:

Since homey is now available in stores, there _SHOULD_ be a good functioning customer support "department".

 The general complaint I read on the forum is that customers (yes, we are customers) are felt left in the dark.

 

No. A company has huge benefits from a good functioning customer support, but it's not mandatory.

The general complaint you give also has very little to do with good functioning customer support, but more with needy customers.
Take Google for example. We have no idea what they're working on. They could be changing the Google home page 10 times a day. We don't know. We are left completely and utterly in the dark on what Google is doing at the moment, how it affects us, what their next steps are, and which projects they have given up on. Think about it. We have no idea.
Do we mind that Google doesn't tell us any of those things? No we don't.
However, for some reason or the other, many people on this forum feel that they somehow earned the right to know every step Athom is taking. Being a customer does not mean in any way that you get the right to know the roadplan of a company.

Pils

@KoenMartens ;

i centainly do not agree with the comparison with google.

if something is wrong with things that should work on google products, I can get support directly, by phone or you can read about it on their forums.

only new things or projects they don't talk about, and that's okay.

but honey promised a lot at the beginning and still a lot does not work or not good enough. 

So yes, they SHOULD update about the state. You cannot compare those two.

KoenMartens

Pils said:

@KoenMartens ;

i centainly do not agree with the comparison with google.

if something is wrong with things that should work on google products, I can get support directly, by phone or you can read about it on their forums.

only new things or projects they don't talk about, and that's okay.

but honey promised a lot at the beginning and still a lot does not work or not good enough. 

So yes, they SHOULD update about the state. You cannot compare those two.

KoenMartens said:

RuudvB said:

 The general complaint I read on the forum is that customers (yes, we are customers) are felt left in the dark.

 

The general complaint you give ...

I was talking about the 'feeling in the dark' when mentioning Google. Not customer support on a ticket/phone basis.

Pils

Well, that is what I mean.

I centainly understand what @RuudvB means with "left in the dark".

i feal the same.  That's why I opened this topic.

but I agreed with you that new stuff they don't have to tell right away. But all the other stuff which they announced or promised or even shown in (probably fake) videos, they should keep us informed.

djesko

MrDutchfighter said:

Athom is way better in communication when they really need to. When users really need them, they are there. I've been waiting on a status update from Fibaro because there latest update bricked my HC2 for almost a week (after direct contact via email). That's bad customer support.

Let them focus on the important stuff and actuaandlly release some cool features instead of telling us they are working on them and they are 'almost' done

and need to send HC2 unit to Poland ( DHL 90 euro )  for a broken usb stick !!!   been there !  

Bumblez

I agree with the OP. Personally, I can wait for certain fixes or features, but communication is key here. Yes, it would be good if Emile took the time, once a week, to not only inform us of the status of upcoming new features, but also of the state of bugfixes and other pressing concerns that were hot topics on the forum that past week... and not just to inform us what has been done that past week, but also to keep us informed on what we can expect. The last reference to bugfixing in his software status updates was on November 11, but no indication whatsoever where on the list of priorities we can expect these bugfixes.
Annemarie was recruited to improve communication on the forum, and if she could provide that kind of information, then I would be perfectly happy... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. So yes, instead of downscaling the weekly software status updates to bi-weekly, I would ask to keep them once a week and upscale the amount of information provided in them.

honey

Take Google for example. We have no idea what they're working on. They could be changing the Google home page 10 times a day. We don't know. We are left completely and utterly in the dark on what Google is doing at the moment, how it affects us, what their next steps are, and which projects they have given up on. Think about it. We have no idea.

Do we mind that Google doesn't tell us any of those things? No we don't.

Well that is not true. They have dozens of blogs where they inform the interested ones. I used to follow one of them. They are quite interesting, I can recommend them.
Also you haven`t paid 300€ for their products so don`t complain. And if you do pay you get a superb service. Just bought a Pixel phone couple of weeks ago. It comes with a dedicated 24h assistance (chat or call) which is amazing. They do everything to fix the bugs or include the suggestions in the coming updates.
Athom don`t even have a public phone number...

JaapPelt

Although I understand the decision, I will miss tuning in every Friday. Instead of skipping the post, perhaps it might be fun to go a bit into depth on some existing functionality. 
Looking back at the last previous posts, the content is a bit scarce.

KoenMartens

honey said:

Take Google for example. We have no idea what they're working on. They could be changing the Google home page 10 times a day. We don't know. We are left completely and utterly in the dark on what Google is doing at the moment, how it affects us, what their next steps are, and which projects they have given up on. Think about it. We have no idea.

Do we mind that Google doesn't tell us any of those things? No we don't.

Well that is not true. They have dozens of blogs where they inform the interested ones. I used to follow one of them. They are quite interesting, I can recommend them.
Also you haven`t paid 300€ for their products so don`t complain. And if you do pay you get a superb service. Just bought a Pixel phone couple of weeks ago. It comes with a dedicated 24h assistance (chat or call) which is amazing. They do everything to fix the bugs or include the suggestions in the coming updates.
Athom don`t even have a public phone number...

I have spend over 300 euro on Android licensing. 
I'm not complaining about google's 'darkness', merely making a point.
And again, ticket/phone-based assistance is not the same as 'keeping people in the dark' or not.

Nontheless, good to know that google does keep blogs to inform the interested people.

MHubert

MrDutchfighter said:

Athom is way better in communication when they really need to. When users really need them, they are there. I've been waiting on a status update from Fibaro because there latest update bricked my HC2 for almost a week (after direct contact via email). That's bad customer support.

Let them focus on the important stuff and actually release some cool features instead of telling us they are working on them and they are 'almost' done

Another example;
https://forum.athom.com/discussion/comment/40115/#Comment_40115

sossienl

I'm complaining when stuff doesn't work as expected. And even while Homey is still not on the level as promised. I have to say the last 2 - 3 weeks Homey is very very stable. 

fiek

Since the retail launch I noticed that @Athom withdrew from this forum and also on github there is litte activity from @Athom. The overall activity in general on this forum has also diminished. In my opinion communication should be much better than before because Homey is in 'retail status'. So I find this very strange and I am wondering if there is something going on behind the scenes.

Menno

I say less talking and more fixes. Must say when people have a RROD they should react quickly

Pils

@fiek ;
 I hope NOT you are right, but i also had the feeling that their might be something going on.
 
Hope not that they are bankrupt or something like that. I can imagine that when many people start bringing homey back because the product is actually not retail ready, then they have a problem.

On the other hand, i also found it strange to go to retail at this stage. So why was that? Did they need the money so bad, and did it give them what they wanted?

But i surely hope that nothing is going on behind the scenes, homey can resolve all the issues and become a really stable product that really makes home control easy.

fiek

@Pils Of course I hope I am wrong. I made my first steps in home automation 8 months ago thanks to Athom, when I received my Homey. I wish them the very best, but my patience is slowly running out. It' s very difficult for a slightly above average user like me to maintain and monitor Homey due to it's instability. I recently bought my first z wave products and that didn't contribute to the stability. I knew what I was getting into 8 months ago, but speaking in Dutch terms "die vlieger gaat niet meer op", because Homey is in retail status.

 After 8 months it's not so fun anymore to be honest. I am a little bit tired of this.

Pils

Yes i had the same, but i returned it to athom after 1 year using it.

I am planning to buy it again, if problems are proven to be not hardware related and fixed.

So i hope to buy one in summer. :-)

jjtbsomhorst

fiek said:

Since the retail launch I noticed that @Athom withdrew from this forum and also on github there is litte activity from @Athom. The overall activity in general on this forum has also diminished. In my opinion communication should be much better than before because Homey is in 'retail status'. So I find this very strange and I am wondering if there is something going on behind the scenes.

Could it be , just a thought, that because they are retail they have lots of work to do because of issues from retail customers etc etc? I talked to @annemariehuijink  to get this topic under attention and was wondering if she was ill or on vacation. They told me she was just very busy. 

I guess that this is true for the whole team. And things like stating that @athom is bankrupt and such is just , to say it in dutch, koffie dik kijken. You don't  know anything about their cashflow so you just can't tell if they are reaching bankruptcy or something similar. This thought always pops up if Athom fails to react within several hours after some issue occures but until this day (and hopefully many days to come) this proved to be some sort of conspiracy theory proved wrong. 

And yes I do acknowledge that Homey does have its flaws. But from what I understand from this topic is this: 

1) Emile stated that hey will not write as much software updates as he has done because they would be less interesting for people
2) People have issues with their devices/homey
3) Because 1 and 2 people feel they are left alone / in the dark. Which is just not true. Also, if you have questions just send them an e-mail, talk to them on Slack or pick up the phone and call them! If you look up the address you will find some phone number you can call. Just because it is not on their website doesn't mean they don't have one. 

Pils

@jjtbsomhorst ;

It is ok to have another opinion about athom using the forum.  "Dat is je goed recht".

But clearly their are lots of people who feel left behind because of the lack of communication on the forum or other medium.

Sending them an email, most of the time took them many days to respond. And most of the time you have more questions and before you know you have a conversation that is active for 3 weeks thru email. Not very handy.
And that is stupid also, because many people have the same kind of problems or questions.  So it more time effective to respond on the forum, instead of responding to everyone sending an email.

and about the bankrupt conspiracy. Why is that a conspiracy? It crossed my mind and i fear for it sometimes. And i am not the only one. It is not something i hope to become thru.  That is why is hope that athom will start communicating better and that is why i started this discussion after the comment of emile.

martijn1980

I completely agree with the OP. Very disappointed in the way how Athom treat his customers. 

Da_JoJo

i agree with @Pils .. its just more convenient to put answers to common questions and a little insight on the forum.
at micasaverde they found out that it makes a lot of customers happy and ask less, also makes the people stay whereas a lot of people would revert elsewhere just by the lack of info/update about the status of bugfixes and such.
it will keep the people stay and most of us are willing to give it some time and be patient, as we all know it is not the easiest job to fix problems and we all know it can't be done in one hour. then again, i still consider it beta stage and i do not understand that athom choose to release it to the public knowing that there are significant bugs still in the software/firmware. on the other hand they are not the only company doing such, it is more common then exception nowadays.. i miss the old times where stuff was tested thoroughly and just worked out of the box. yes, less options and not such fancy stuff as we have at the moment, but it did not crash and it was solid.

Bumblez

Let's try and put a more positive spin to this thread.... here's a recommendation:
If @Emile feels that software updates every week would be less interesting (if he feels that on that point he doesn't have enough to tell people), then maybe he can do a software update one one Friday, and then the next week write a blog post in which he focuses on presenting actual cases and situations (such as actual working flows, or useful guidelines, tips and examples for (wannabe) app programmers) from the Athom team, that can help both the new batch of retail users, and those that have been around longer.

That would have big 2 benefits, that should easily outweigh the extra time he would need for this:
1. People can see that there are a lot of different situations in which Homey *does* work well, and get new ideas about their own applications of Homey. This could also give quite a boost to sales...
2. Athom shows their presence and involvement with the community (as opposed to their absence on this forum, which gives a lot of people the idea that they are not involved with the community at all... and currently their blog isn't really alive either... the last blog post is from August!). This helps to increase confidence in the company, and would take away some of the concerns people have.

Martijn

guys, I understand the feelings but do you think its better to leave @Emile to his main job?

Communicating with the community is a good thing but eats also much more time then thought by some people on this forum... You have to choose words wisely because every slip of the tong wil result in a battle of words against Athom. Therefore I like the informational posts of @Emile, and the proposed schedule is ok for me. Of course if Emile feels bored some moment he can write about the beautiful things that comes in the near future... but I think that will not be the case.
And if he feels bored, please get the TOON app up and running and release the damn thing

Bumblez

As a company, communication with your customers is essential and should always be at the forefront of priorities (and no, I don't mean communicating with each customer individually or answering every single question). This includes the kind of info I was talking about in my previous post. As the CEO of the company, it should be Emile's responsibility to overlook that this kind of communication happens. This doesn't mean he has to do it himself... it could also be someone else (like Annemarie) who provides us with that kind of information. But saying that the company is too busy to communicate with its customers, is nearly the same as saying that the customers are no longer a priority for the company... which would definitely not be a good thing.