Z-Wave development needs to get ramped up

mruiter

We have seen z-wave get wors and wors the last few firmware updates.
.30 now makes z-wave useless. Devices that worked no also stopped working. 
On slack more people have confirmed this.

Looks like @taco is one of the few or maybee the only one doing dev for z-wave.
Kaku is usefull but unreliable. (ok not at the moment).
Kaku is a nice and cheap way, but we want stability and two way communication so i know the lights went of or on or more.
For kaku i can use Homewizard and we all want more.

@emile can you put more people on z-wave ?! create logging so we can see when custom parms get tru to the z-wave devices and look in the z-wave log to see what the z-wave device is responding back ?

I had a box of not usable z-wave devices is growing each firmware release. at the moment none of my z-wave devices are working. Tested is on both my Homeys so its not Homey specific but Homey wide.

Lets get z-wave also outoff alpha and put it in the beta level like the rest....

DaneeDeKruyff

I have to agree with @mruiter; something needs to be done. Even though I've only tried 2 firmware versions yet, My feeling is also that we're going in the wrong direction.

During the waiting for my homey to be delivered I've build up quite a collection of z-wave devices but they're still useless and I'm really wondering how long it wil take to be able to use them..

ThijsDeJong

I'm sure @Emile and the team are working there asses off to get this fixed, but I do want to support this post.
Z-wave is a bit more expensive, but you get more that's what we pay for. No let Homey be the one that we hoped, and know that will be the one that makes It work.
Keep up the good work!

Fire69

My z-wave hasn't gotten better or worse since the last couple of firmwares.
So for me, it's not going in the wrong direction, it's just not going in any direction at all for the moment.

aloft

I have to say, in 0.8.30, as long as I change the Z-wave network ( adding / removing devices ), it is pretty stable. In previous versions, the network would become unresponsive after max 24 hours. Right now, that is not the case, it seems pretty stable. 

I agree that Z-wave still needs a lot of work to be more robust and reliable. 

PimBliek

I'm onboard since 0.8.29. Z-Wave works, but very limited. A couple of Duewi / Z-Wave.me dimmers work flawlessly. Fibaro Motion Sensors / Multi Sensors work as well. The Fibaro Wallplug does not work at all. Haven't tested more than this.

MilanVanDenMuyzenberg

I have had regression with every new firmware version. Now, with 0.8.30, Z-Wave for me has become unusable. Devices are all in a disconnected state. As I told on Slack, development seems to be done on a trial-and-error basis and does not appear to be in control. Got 1000 Euros of unusable ZWave stuff lying around. I know all is supposed to be in beta state, all right, but I believe it is fair to assume that every release should improve things and not worsen them.

@Athom: what are your qualification procedures? Do you use execute Z-Wave tests on a plethora of Z-Wave devices before release? Bet if you use as few as five Fibaro Dimmer 2 devices things will come to  a grinding halt.

@aloft: things don't need to be "more robust and reliable" . They need to be fully robust and reliable. The whole use-case of having Homey as central domotica is ruined if it is not up 24/7, just like, for example, my NAS. 

kasteleman

@MilanVanDenMuyzenberg: 1000 Euros of unusable ZWave stuff, but focus on the Fibaro Dimmer 2? Did you list the devices included in Homey? Did you narrow it down to that specific device? If so, how?

MilanVanDenMuyzenberg

@kasteleman: I have quite a few dimmers. Some of those worked on previous firmware releases, but not anymore with 0.8.30. Haven't been able to pair most of the others even once. I've managed to pair a few once, but then they got disconnected and haven't been able to pair them again. All in all, I conclude Fibaro Dimmer 2 support is poor.
Greenwave node 6 used to work, but is now dead as well. Fibaro multi-sensors connect, but rarely trigger a flow, so very inconsistent behavior.

Fire69

Might I just say that I  think it's pretty stupid to migrate all your devices at once to homey ? 
I only have about 15 devices right now, and migrated 3, just to test if it's stable... 
If you really have that many devices that are now completely 'unusable', just hook them back up to your original controller and wait for improvement. Leave a couple of dimmers for homey and test with new firmwares... 

kasteleman

@MilanVanDenMuyzenberg : Did you trigger the Greenwave node 6 again so it reports itself to Homey? Other people report they still work. Can't test myself. Have to wait a few days, but hey...Homey is on its way...Have a Fibaro Dimmer 2 as wel. No multi sensor, so don't know about that.

Michael

What I'm not getting here is why it's so hard to get these devices working. ZWave is a standard. So as long as you implement the standard correctly all devices should work correct, right?
Also for home automation I don't accept "pretty stable". What if your thermostat sometimes works? Or if your traditional switch turns the light on 50% of the time. What if your car only start on Monday, but never on Friday? It should work 100% of the time, right?

Do we think that zwave (and Homey) will be 100% reliable in the future?

blusser

aloft said:

I have to say, in 0.8.30, as long as I change the Z-wave network ( adding / removing devices ), it is pretty stable. In previous versions, the network would become unresponsive after max 24 hours. Right now, that is not the case, it seems pretty stable. 

I agree that Z-wave still needs a lot of work to be more robust and reliable. 

I cannot find what you mean, can you describe your steps how to do this ?

By the way, should the sis-id not being random generated for each homey  instead of default "1" in each homey ?
It smells like a security issue althrough I'm not sure it is...

Taco

The SIS id has little nothing to do with security. The SIS is the node id server in the network which is by default Homey

blusser

@Taco, thanks for your quick explanation .. !

novaflash

Z-wave should be a priority, I believe this as well. But knowing Z-wave a bit over the years, it's not as easy as it seems. Saying that Z-wave is a standard is saying that electricity is a standard. But if you go to another country, chances are you can't plug your device in. Wrong voltage, wrong socket, etc. But sure, with work, these issues can be resolved. I have faith in @Taco. But maybe putting more people on it would help. Maybe some @Tortilla.

Phuturist

After days of being pretty much stable my zwave network crashed again. When restarting the Zwave chip I got a pop-up with a non descriptive error and #500 error in the console. I forgot to save it for debugging purposes. The only thing I changed was enable two flows that control an extra greenwave powernode 6 socket that can only be reached through routing through another socket. If I keep getting these crashes I'll disable them again and will see if the crashes dissapear after that.

fuzzybear

I know during development of the Fibaro HC2 that flows were affecting the zwave network. Hopefully this is not the case here.

aloft

Fire69 said:

Might I just say that I  think it's pretty stupid to migrate all your devices at once to homey ? 
I only have about 15 devices right now, and migrated 3, just to test if it's stable... 
If you really have that many devices that are now completely 'unusable', just hook them back up to your original controller and wait for improvement. Leave a couple of dimmers for homey and test with new firmwares... 

Not everybody migrates from an old solution: I am new to Domotica myself, buying new devices to connect to Homey. So I understand the disappointment if a certain device doesn't work. And completely understand the frustration if a device that worked in a previous version, now stops functioning.

Phuturist

Phuturist said:

After days of being pretty much stable my zwave network crashed again. When restarting the Zwave chip I got a pop-up with a non descriptive error and #500 error in the console. I forgot to save it for debugging purposes. The only thing I changed was enable two flows that control an extra greenwave powernode 6 socket that can only be reached through routing through another socket. If I keep getting these crashes I'll disable them again and will see if the crashes dissapear after that.

Ok, just happened again. The error is: Error: undefined

api.js:1 GET http://192.168.0.120/api/wireless/zwave/allDevices?_=1461004833358 500 (Internal Server Error)window.Homey.api @ api.js:1o.contentWindow.Homey.api @ settings.js:1e.api @ (index):1e.getDevices @ (index):1(anonymous function) @ (index):1(anonymous function) @ (index):1(anonymous function) @ (index):1h.$eval @ angular.js:2h.$apply @ angular.js:2(anonymous function) @ (index):1i.onload @ api.js:1

Fire69

aloft said:

Fire69 said:

Might I just say that I  think it's pretty stupid to migrate all your devices at once to homey ? 
I only have about 15 devices right now, and migrated 3, just to test if it's stable... 
If you really have that many devices that are now completely 'unusable', just hook them back up to your original controller and wait for improvement. Leave a couple of dimmers for homey and test with new firmwares... 

Not everybody migrates from an old solution: I am new to Domotica myself, buying new devices to connect to Homey. So I understand the disappointment if a certain device doesn't work. And completely understand the frustration if a device that worked in a previous version, now stops functioning.

If you're new to domotica, I suppose you won't have thousands of €'s worth of material, like some here are complaining about? 

DaneeDeKruyff

If you were new to domotica when backing at kickstarter and have been buying steadily until delivery it's really not that hard to have spend a pile!

aloft

Fire69 said:

aloft said:

Fire69 said:

Might I just say that I  think it's pretty stupid to migrate all your devices at once to homey ? 
I only have about 15 devices right now, and migrated 3, just to test if it's stable... 
If you really have that many devices that are now completely 'unusable', just hook them back up to your original controller and wait for improvement. Leave a couple of dimmers for homey and test with new firmwares... 

Not everybody migrates from an old solution: I am new to Domotica myself, buying new devices to connect to Homey. So I understand the disappointment if a certain device doesn't work. And completely understand the frustration if a device that worked in a previous version, now stops functioning.

If you're new to domotica, I suppose you won't have thousands of €'s worth of material, like some here are complaining about? 

No, not thousands of EURs, since many devices are not cheap, it will add up. I recognise the enthusiasm with others, buying a lot of equipment in preparation of Homey's arrival. I took the steady route, but still it can be frustrating to see the development not always in an upwards line.

I understand how development works, so I understand this is part of the deal. But from a user perspective, I agree with some complaints. There are a lot of issues, and while many are being solved, many are not. And feedback from the Homey team is not always as rapid as you'd like.

But understanding development; it can be one or two nasty little bugs to are hard to find and once solved, many stability issues with the protocols are solved. Let's hope so and support Athom in getting these results. Send bug reports as structured as possible via Github, and discuss in the forums ; maybe we see patterns as users which can help Athom debug the open issues. 

mruiter

@Fire69 ; Why not ? Can you look into my wallet or bank account ?  Guess not ...
8 motions sensors, 12 danfoss , 10 door/window sensors, 5 smoke alarms, 22 wall switches , 5 socket switches , 2 fibaro binarie sensors and somes zwave arduino stuf.
Small packages that goes easy to 2000 euros and it could atomate just a small piece of my house.

Fire69

Has nothing to do with your wallet (or even you at all), just seems illogical to me to spend lots of money on devices you won't be able to use for months (or even years if your a backer). 
Plus you risk buying devices that will be replaced by newer versions by the time you receive your homey... 
But hey, don't let me stop you, as you said, it's your wallet  

mruiter

Sorry Spock. And when receive homey is the least of the problem.
Will receive my third one tomorrow. 3 times a charm

Fire69

You're starting a collection?  

mruiter

collector items, one from every batch... Misdrukken are always worth a lot of money, lol

JasperKort

mruiter said:

collector items, one from every batch... Misdrukken are always worth a lot of money, lol

Want to trade one for one that's missing a foot?  

novaflash

JasperKort said:

mruiter said:

collector items, one from every batch... Misdrukken are always worth a lot of money, lol

Want to trade one for one that's missing a foot?  

Super rare Homey with a manufacturing defect! Should be worth 10 times as much now.

DaneeDeKruyff

There are multiple reports of homeys with loose feet so that's not so rare and to not go off topic; a homey with working z-wave, that would be super rare!

(Sorry, couldn't resist)