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Setting up a context-sensitive remote

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  • theohessetheohesse Member
    @Emile: Out of honest curiosity, how do you control your TV, audio system, Xbox and other stuff after you switched them on with Homey? With their regular remotes or do you use an universal remote, too?
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    edited January 2016
    Emile said:
    That's not true. I said that voice control isn't suites for browsing channels (zapping). I use Homey definitely to turn on my TV, put on the news automatically at eight, switch to my Xbox hdmi input etc. 

    And from what I can tell, all this is already possible with Homey, Harmony and IFTTT. Then, after turning them on, you can use the Harmony remote for browsing etc. Obviously I can't test the integration part, as I don't have my Homey yet, but if IFTTT is too unstable/unreliable to be used for this purpose, as theohesse suggests, then a large chunk of the (intended) Homey functionality falls away...

    @Emile - what are your own experiences with IFTTT? Is it really that unreliable?
  • compadrecompadre Member
    Emile said:
    That's not true. I said that voice control isn't suites for browsing channels (zapping). I use Homey definitely to turn on my TV, put on the news automatically at eight, switch to my Xbox hdmi input etc. 

    for the channels we can use then the spin remote (and you need to let them talk to each other) ;)
  • jordenjorden Member
    @theohesse: In my opinion, we didn't buy a device that would do everything we wished for. We invested in a company that built a device that CAN do almost everything we wish for. From the start, Athom has shown what is supported and what is not, and told that a lot would be supported out of the box, but a lot can be programmed by the community. So don't expect Athom to create all apps, a lot will have to be done by the community. And I am sure a lot will be!
  • theohessetheohesse Member
    @Bumblez: You can just google about IFTTT and you will see that people came to the conclusion that it is a great idea and a nice thing to play around with but it is just not stable or quick enough for certain use cases (like AV control).

    @compadre: If Spin actually works (what we don't know at this point).

    @jorden: I am sorry, but that's just not true. I pre-ordered a Homey on the Athom website, so this has nothing to do with investing in a company, I don't invest in Apple, if I pre-order an iPhone from them. And I did not buy the Homey for some dream scenarios in my mind, I specifically bought it for the reasons mentioned on the website and in the videos. The website reads "Talk to your home to control everything: From lights to music, from climate to TV." and to me control means a little bit more than just turning on/off or switching inputs on the TV.
  • Oy1974Oy1974 Member
    I always gonna be using my remote (harmony) or other brand. The only thing i want to know. Why you switch the tv for examble on with the homey and after that you cant use your remote (harmony) it just dont make sense to me. 

    Guess the option is not using homey for the tv ect but then i think a modern home control system should able to handle what i describe. 

    But didnt order a homey yet and reaaly have to think good about it.
  • MichaelMichael Member
    When we will get Harmony support (That's probably going to happen anyway, because it's no rocket science to create an app for that) you can just start the scenes on the Harmony from Homey. For example:
    When I tell Homey "I'm going to bed"
    • Turn off lights
    • Set heating to 16 degrees
    • Send "All off" to Harmony
    Or when I come home at 18:00
    • Turn on lights
    • Turn on heating
    • Send "Watch TV" scene to Harmony
    From that point on you can just use your Harmony to control your AV. I was just looking at Domoticz and there it works exactly like this. Sounds like a perfect marriage to me!
  • theohessetheohesse Member
    @Michael: "When"! Like "when" Homey will ship...

    @Oy1974: Agree with you a 100%! If I would have looked in the forum first, I would have waited with my pre-order, too.
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    theohesse said:
    @Bumblez: You can just google about IFTTT and you will see that people came to the conclusion that it is a great idea and a nice thing to play around with but it is just not stable or quick enough for certain use cases (like AV control).
    Not quick enough for AV control, that I can understand. If I want to change the channel, or change the volume, I am not going to talk to Homey or to try and trigger some kind of IFTTT recipe... neither are going to be fast enough for that. That's where the physical remote is way better. But for things that are less time critical (like turning on the music when I get home, or turn on my TV on the correct channel), IFTTT should work just fine. I've read several discussions on the net about IFTTT reliability, and some people say it works great (and they seem to think that it's just about what kind of situations you use it for), others say it's way too unreliable. I admit that I have way too little experience with it myself, so yes, I'd love to know what the experience from the people at Athom is with this. Because IFTTT integration makes up a significant part of the (intended) everyday use of Homey.

    theohesse said:
    @jorden: I am sorry, but that's just not true. I pre-ordered a Homey on the Athom website, so this has nothing to do with investing in a company, I don't invest in Apple, if I pre-order an iPhone from them. And I did not buy the Homey for some dream scenarios in my mind, I specifically bought it for the reasons mentioned on the website and in the videos. The website reads "Talk to your home to control everything: From lights to music, from climate to TV." and to me control means a little bit more than just turning on/off or switching inputs on the TV.
    You skipped over the important distinction in jorden's message, and that is between the "will do" versus "can do". The Homey hardware that you will receive CAN do all that was promised on the website. Whether it WILL do so out-of-the-box is an entirely different matter... that also depends on the software for your particular situation, in other words on the app that integrates that hardware with whatever lights, music, climate control, AV system, etc you have at your home. And Athom never promised to supply apps that will support each and every brand of hardware. They have a list of logos on their site for the hardware that will be supported by Athom... everything else may require community effort (or may be planned by Athom for the future). So if you expect to be able to talk to every component in your particular home (lights, music, climate, TV, etc) 'out-of-the-box', then expect to be disappointed!

    @Michael
    "Send "All off" to Harmony"  --> can you already create an activity for that in Harmony? Because that's the one I can't seem to manage!
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    Oy1974 said:
    I always gonna be using my remote (harmony) or other brand. The only thing i want to know. Why you switch the tv for examble on with the homey and after that you cant use your remote (harmony) it just dont make sense to me. 

    Guess the option is not using homey for the tv ect but then i think a modern home control system should able to handle what i describe.
    The problem is, that the Harmony keeps track of the state that each device is in (on/off). If you let Homey remote control (for example) your TV directly, without going through the Harmony, then the Harmony still thinks that the TV is off, so then using the Harmony remote for changing the channel or the volume, won't work. So the trick is, to not let Homey send the signal directly to your TV, but to let Homey send the commands to the Harmony. This probably means it will only work if you have a Hub, but then you should be able to let Homey trigger complete activities (things like: "Turn on the TV, switch to channel 1, turn on my AV receiver, switch it to the TV input"). And then, once your TV is on, you can use the Harmony remote without any problems.
  • theohessetheohesse Member
    "Homey does not only speak with you, but also with all your (wireless) devices. Those of 10 years ago, your newest ones, and the ones you buy in the next few years." This is from the Athom website and clearly communicates that these features are already available (the reason why I placed the pre-order), so it is "can do" and not "will do". Period. And we are not talking about support for some new Kickstarter gadget or stuff like that, I would guess that more Homey users have a Harmony than a Nest or an iKettle. So why not support that from the start?
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    theohesse said:
    "Homey does not only speak with you, but also with all your (wireless) devices. Those of 10 years ago, your newest ones, and the ones you buy in the next few years."
    This statement is still true. The Homey hardware can send whatever signal you tell it to, to all the devices that it supports the protocol of... including devices that are not even released yet. So Homey is able to speak to all your devices. But exactly what it says to that device, is either for you to decide, or is determined by a software app (which may be third party). So this only confirms what I said... the Homey hardware CAN do all that was promised.

    And yes, I would love Harmony support as well, but Athom never promised that Harmony support was something they would do. The Homey hardware CAN support Harmony... all it takes is for someone to make an app for it. And for us to have the patience to wait for that (or do it ourselves).
  • EmileEmile Administrator, Athom
    Within Homey, you can also 'zap' between channels, definitely! You could even do that with a KlikAanKlikUit remote, with your voice, even with a doorbell if you'd like. I just said that I don't think that voice is the best solution there. Imagine it: 'OK Homey, next channel. OK Homey, next channel.' :wink:

    @Bumblez I haven't really personally used IFTTT. Everything they can do that I want, Homey can do as well :smiley: 
  • theohessetheohesse Member
    @Bumblez: With all due respect, but this sounds like fanboy nonsense to me. The marketing slogan on the website implies that Homey can (without anything else necessary) speak to all of my wireless devices (I don't even need all, I need the important ones) in a way that it gets something done, not that it can theoretically speak to them but you need a community member with too much time to get something to work.

    @Emile: Can you give us an insight about your setup? How do you control your TV, audio system, Xbox and other stuff after you switched them on with Homey? With their regular remotes or do you use an universal remote, too?
  • EmileEmile Administrator, Athom
    theohesse said:
    @Emile: Can you give us an insight about your setup? How do you control your TV, audio system, Xbox and other stuff after you switched them on with Homey? With their regular remotes or do you use an universal remote, too?
    I rarely watch TV, but when I do I still use my infrared remote. However, the TV automatically turns on and switches to NPO1 when the news starts at 19:59.

    If I say 'OK Homey, I want to play on by xbox', the TV is turned on, set to HDMI2, my soundsystem is set to Digital Audio input. We áre working on a Xbox One app that can turn that one on and start Xbox apps as well, yet it's quite tricky. But someday we'll have that working as well :-)
  • BumblezBumblez Member
    Emile said:
    @Bumblez I haven't really personally used IFTTT. Everything they can do that I want, Homey can do as well :smiley: 
    That's both good to know, and a bit scary. While it's good to know that Homey's flow editor has its own version of the flow functionality for many scenarios, it doesn't ease my mind in regard to IFTTT useability at all. Which means that the large library of channels that IFTTT has, may still prove to be fairly useless in combination with Homey, if IFTTT indeed proves to be too unreliable for most scenarios...
  • JaapPeltJaapPelt Member
    We only watch streamed content on our TV (Netflix, youtube) via chromecast. The chromecast can turn the TV on control volume. The only thing we use the remote for is to switch it of. This is definitely something Homey can replace very easily and I expect it will make our remote completely obsolete very soon. 
  • Fire69Fire69 Member
    IFTTT lots of times misses my daily recipe to turn on a light at sunset.  So I wouldn't trust it to control my TV in whatever way.
    For people with a Harmony hub, the only logical solution would be for Homey to support it.  From Athom or community, doesn't matter :smile: 
  • dclrcqdclrcq Member
    I use IFTTT with my LIFX to fade in every morning and I've never had any problems.
    This goes for all my other recipes as well.
  • PhuturistPhuturist Member
    edited January 2016
    Whoops
  • AljoenAljoen Member
    I personal use Tasker and a Veralight in combination with a Harmony Hub. Can use my harmony to control TV etc and voice control using Tasker do the same. They perfectly stay in sync. If somebody would  make an Tasker app on Homey..lot of problems would be solved.....I hope..
     
  • MichaelMichael Member
    Bumblez said:
    "Send "All off" to Harmony"  --> can you already create an activity for that in Harmony? Because that's the one I can't seem to manage!
    In domoticz it's currently possible. So yes :smile: 
  • nklerknklerk Member
    Neeo and homey have an overlapping feature set. I have backed Neeo and preordered homey. 

    I think they both will nicely coexist in my home. As there is no api documentation yet available for Neeo it's hard to tell if they could work with each other. 
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    I cancelled my Neeo remote order.
    I lost faith in the project and the Remote specs says that you need(!) a Brain with the remote.
    So I have no idea if a Remote can be configured without a Brain and also it looks like the Remote have no IR.
    So it looks like the Remote uses (IEEE 802.15.4 dual antenna (6LowPAN and ready for Thread, ZigBee)) to communicate with the Brain and the Brain sends the IR signals to your devices.

    Sounds to me that won't work with Homey at launch, so i cancelled it and wait for somebody how got this work :smile: 

  • ThiemenThiemen Member
    Do we already have harmony on the list of products to be integrated?
  • nklerknklerk Member
    The remote itself is a useless device without the brain. all the radio's and the IR Blasters are within the brain. The remote uses one of the IEEE 802.15.4 protocols to communicate with the brain, forgot which one it was.

    There will be an API for Neeo but there will not be the extensive App/driver support as the homey does. Connecting the two shouldn't be a problem as they both support Zwave, Ir, and on the Homey it's possible to create an App to support the Neeo API. As soon as i have both devices i will instantly start with connecting them together. and off-course report my progress.

    but until then it's hard to tell if they could fully work with each other. 

    I can imagine that when i use the neeo remote to start a movie that homey asks me if it should dim the lights for me. and because the Neeo remote can sense who is holding the remote it could say somthing like, "Niels, do you want me to dim the lights for you?" Making the interaction more personal. thinking about this i am going to start a new topic to ask if homey would be able to hear a voice difference between the main users to the same cause. lol :smiley: 
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    edited February 2016
    I hoped the Neeo remote could be used to control Homey without the brain. My goal with homey is to eliminate all (smart)hubs in my house, so i don't want another controller/smarthub/etc. smile 

    I want Homey to be the main and only controlling device in my house.
    I hope to ditch the Hue bridge as soon as possible.

    Last week we bought a Miele washing machine with Miele@Home possibility. I want to use the smartgrid feature, but sadly enough this only works if you buy a very expensive Gateway and machine module(>€300+€120) to connect it over Zigbee.

    would be great if Homey could connect over Zigbee with the machine module.

  • nklerknklerk Member
    I don't like to have all those bridges, but until all those devices will use the same protocol you'll need it to connect them to each other.

    there are so many protocols and dialects that it would be nearly impossible to work without bridges. 

    The neeo brain is more than a bridge. It's literally the brain of the remote. The Neeo remote only knows how to send and receive data to the brain. this means you'll need the brain.

    the Philips hue bulbs could work without the brain but as most apps and 3rd party intergrations uses its API it means that most of us would want to have the hub plugged in.
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