A few questions for my new house, Homey + KiKa

SanderVh

Hi guys,

I'm Dutch, but since the 'rules' prefer topics in English, I'll try my best to honor those rules :-)

I've recently had a new house built and we are finishing the inside ourselves. That includes wiring the entire house, so there is much room to think about automation. I came across Homey much earlier in the process of 'designing' our house, but it's time to make things a bit more specific.

So far, the uses I'm interested in are:
- Automating all the lighting (inside and outside)
- Connect the television and sound system (living room)
- Maybe some door-sensors here and there
- Doorbell
- Possibly also hooking up the thermostat, but since I have 'underfloor heating' you shouldn't change the temperature a lot anyway

I did some research and the KiKa system seem to be the cheapest out there to connect all the lighting, though cheapest doesn't always mean the best option.

Question 1:
What is the experience with the range of the 433 MHz signal? Is it OK to cover an entire house if Homey has a central spot? The house is only two stories (there is an attic, but just for storage) and 10 x 8.5 m.

Question 2:
(Maybe this question is more suitable to ask KiKa, but perhaps there is enough expertise in the Homey forum as well, haha).
a. I still want some normal switches for my lights on the wall as well. I found some KiKa receivers that you can build in behind the normal switch, but is it possible to have a dimmer on the wall and a built in KiKa dimmer? Or you can only build in a KiKa dimmer and have normal on/off switch on the wall?
b. I have a lamp above the stairs that I will be able to dim in the hall downstairs and turn on/off on the first floor. I found a KiKa build-in on/off switch that support a 'hotel-schakeling' like that, but does anyone know if it will still be possible to dim the light using KiKa?

Question 3:
I've read that Homey can also send IR signals (for instance to the TV) and that it sends the signal in all directions, but how do you teach this signal to Homey? For instance: I will have an electric fireplace which can be turned on and off with an IR remote. Is this something I can add to Homey?

Thanks a lot for your answers, looking forward to this adventure :-)

Sander

TedTolboom

Hi @SanderV
I think most of us started with KaKi to transfer at a later moment in time to a Z-wave or recently Zigbee based system...

it might look more expensive, but it is also providing some significant advantages: 2 way communication and a meshnetwork extending the range...

Next to lighting, also several of the thermostats use these protocols, even more extending the strength of the network..

I would take a look into using these protocols, instead of KaKi

Rocodamelshe

 Kika is not the right description. Should be KAKU (Klik Aan/Klik Uit)
For question 1 and 2: Don't go with KAKU if u want a reliable system. Go for Zigbee or Zwave.
For number 3: should be possible yes

TedTolboom

Regarding Question 3; is this an existing fireplace? And is it controlled by Ir of by RF (most commonly used)
if it is a new fireplace, I would check the option to have it controlled via an app WIFI...

Rocodamelshe

Also another topic for u maybe here?

SanderVh

Hi guys, thanks for the quick answers so far! So KAKU doesn't work that great with the 433 MHz? A quick search learns that if you want something with Z-wave you end up with Fibaro? A build-in dimmer KAKU (433MHz, 210W) is about €22, a build-in dimmer by FIBARO (Z-wave, 250W) is €60. Do these prices sound right? For a few switches, not really a problem.. but if every switch is 3x times as expensive, we're talking about serious money.

Rocodamelshe

Sounds fair yes but in Holland we say: Kost wat, heb je ook wat!
All depends on the cash u wanna spend.

TedTolboom

You’re right... it is serious money, but compared to building a new house?

And what happens if KaKu disappoints?

Business controller angry...
At best you can sell the KaKu units on Marktplaats for half the value and you want / have to upgrade to Z-wave anyway... accounting for 3.5 times...

In addition, most Home automation  shops offer discounts when ordering a significant batch of modules.. if not mentioned on their site, send them (several) an inquiry...

SanderVh

Thanks for the advice guys. Compared to building an entire house everything seems only small, but after a while you realise that every 'extra' adds up to a larger amount haha. At a certain point you need to re-allocate budget, instead of adding more and more..

I've done some more reading and I've come to the conclusion that KaKu is indeed not what I'm looking for. I've even read that you shouldn't place two receivers more than 50 cm near each other, to prevent the signals from interfering with each other.... what kind of a system is that.... I have 2, 3 or even 4 switches on some walls within centimeter of each other!

I've already found the Fibaro Dimmer 2 for €45, so that's already better than €60. I also found a way to re-allocate some budget :-) By changing the actual wall switches from GIRA dimmers to simple GIRA on/off switches I easily save €50,00 per switch!! So the normal switch will just be a on/off switch and the dimming function will be handeled by the Fibaro.

I'm gonna do a bit more research, thanks for the help so far. I'm sure I'll be back with follow-up questions :-)

Rocodamelshe

With the Dimmer2 u wanna use the pulsdrukkers!

TedTolboom

@SanderVh good to hear...

and yes, looking at our neighbours also contributes...

But like @Rocodamelshe mentioned, I would recommend to use momentary switches (pulddrukkers) with the dimmer-2's..

you can even add a double version to 1 dimmer-2, enabling to directly control the dimmer-2 itself and a remote dimmer-2 (via direct association).

SanderVh

@Rocodamelshe & @TedTolboom: What's the added benefit of the pulsdrukkers? I see that price-wise it doesn't matter that much, but personally I like the 'flip switches' which have an on- and off-state.

TedTolboom

@SanderVh
I guess the Fibaro Dimmer-2 manual should provide the answer:

Controlling the Dimmer 2 using a switch:
Momentary switch (after releasing the switch a spring automatically pushes back and disconnects the switch):
• Turning the light ON/OFF: change the position of switch no. 1. The Dimmer 2 will be activated always at previously set brightness level,
• Brightening/dimming the light: hold switch no. 1 down. When the switch is held down, the Dimmer 2 will always reach the extreme value of 1% or 99%,
• Turning the light ON completely: fast double-click switch no. 1. The Dimmer 2 will set the load at 99%.

Toggle switch (operates as a two-position switch, it has no spring that would set one position of the switch):
• Turning the light ON/OFF: toggle switch no. 1. The Dimmer 2 will be activated always at previously set brightness level,
• Turning the light ON completely: toggle twice switch no. 1. The Dimmer 2 will set the load at 99%.

So the momentary switch provides an option to manually control the dim-level as well as to trigger (2x - 3x clicking) scenes within Homey...

JPe

@SanderVh  
BTW under categories, there is also a Dutch category (waar je in het Nederlands kan communiceren) but your English is very good    I also would recommend Fibaro or Quibino as z-wave devices, you better start small, only a few devices to begin with and you always can expand, this also spreads the investment so it looks less expensive.