Welcome to the Athom Community Forum! This is a place to share ideas, ask for help and discuss about Homey in general.

Please read Welcome to the forum to get started.
Ask your Homey-related questions in this category. You can also go to athom.com/support to get support from Athom.

Optimal sequence for including components?

Hi everybody,
Homey came into my life a few months ago - and the hardware transformation of my home started...
New all relevant sockets and switches are equipped with z-wave units (mostly Fibaro Dimmer 2, ZHC-5010, and Powernode 6).
No new components have been introduced for some weeks now and the z-wave mesh should have had time to reconfigure by now (?)
However, I experience long delays without obvious reasons :-(

Going through the log I've found several occasions where it says "Queue full" and looking at node-ID's I've identified, that most of the times it is when a signal goes through epecially one of my Powernode 6s.

Looking at the map over the devices in the settings page shows, that some units have a very central role in the mesh, especially my three Powernode 6s. One of them have a very large number of connections (17!). However, this Powernode 6 is actully one of the z-wave components with the longest distance to Homey physically.
A possible explanation could be, that this device is paired to the Homey recently (compared to other devices) and that I moved Homey 

As the delays are really annoying, I'm thinking about going through the process of deleting all devices and start over again (including re-programming all flows etc).

Now my question:
Which sequence should devices be added in to make the optimum mesh?
I think about leaving Homey stationary where it will be in the future and then make a setup where each device in turn will be removed from its present location, power it up and pair it to the Homey using a temporary installation just in front of the Homey and then install the device where it should be.

Should I start by pairing it with the units that end op furthest away? Or should I start with units that will end up close to Homey and work my way "away"?

All suggestions on how to make a solid and proper z-wave mesh are very velcome!!!

Chr.

Comments

  • cbhcbh Member
    Might be timing asking questions not related to the 1.5 update - but is it really true nobody have an opinion on this?
  • bvdbosbvdbos Moderator, Backer - Geek Edition
    Best thing to do is to move your Homey near the places where your sensors are. As for the mesh, afaik Athom has nog control any further...
  • cbhcbh Member
    This is actuality what I did - and the result is as described: some of the last added nodes have a very central role in the mesh - even though they are placed far away...

    Not sure if I understand the last sentence you wrote - do you mean, that the mesh is beyond the control of Athom/Homey?
  • RuudvBRuudvB Member
    cbh said:
    This is actuality what I did - and the result is as described: some of the last added nodes have a very central role in the mesh - even though they are placed far away...
    I'm not quite sure if what you want is possible. Also the graphic representation is not actually a true representation as I understand. 
    I'm experiencing something similar as you describe. I have not yet found a way to rebuilt the mesh in a way that other device connections are used. I have about 4 z-wave devices not graphically connected anywhere, but working perfect...

    Normally I don't experience long delays. I have one abnormality, 3 z-wave sockets in a garden house, 2 next to each other the other only 1m away. Sometimes it works perfectly, other times one of the switches (next to each other) just doesn't work...
    This is definitely not a range issue at a distance of about 2cm. That is when all 3 switches run over the mesh. It looks more that the mesh doesn't use one of the close switches but connects directly via another switch to the homey.

    Does anyone know of a method to see/log which hops in the mesh are used?
  • cbhcbh Member
    Hi again,
    I went analogue and have read most of the book "Z-wave-essentials" and I think the answer is pretty simple - but the impact of using the "wrong" method is considerable.

    Each (mains powered) z-wave node store which other nodes are "best" when communicating in the mesh - as well as the central controller (Homey) keeps a table with the shortest routes to different units.
    When a unit is included in the network, the table is updated according to the actual situation, that is, the sorrounding environment seen by the unit at the time of inclusion.
    This means, if Homey is kept stationary and units are included in turn using a temporary setup and then moved to their final destination, the information kept in the central controller (Homey) is totally wrong...

    The z-wave protocol includes automatic adjustment of the table describing the mesh - but this takes some time, at the process is based how often the communication fails and only when this happens so-and-so-much is the table updated (as Homey does not seem to have the option of forcing it to update the network).

    Therefore, the most reasonable way to build the z-wave mesh must be, that you mount nodes in their final position and add 50 meters of extension cord to Homey and take a tour in the building placing Homey just next to the unit when including it...
    (The extension cord is to avoid having to unplug Homey again and again and have to wait for rebooting ;-)).

    Let me know if you think I'm completely wrong - I'll edit the post accordingly to avoid sharing wrong advices :-)

    Chr.
  • TedTolboomTedTolboom Moderator, Backer - Geek Edition, Homey Ambassador
    cbh said:
    Hi again,
    I went analogue and have read most of the book "Z-wave-essentials" and I think the answer is pretty simple - but the impact of using the "wrong" method is considerable.

    Each (mains powered) z-wave node store which other nodes are "best" when communicating in the mesh - as well as the central controller (Homey) keeps a table with the shortest routes to different units.
    When a unit is included in the network, the table is updated according to the actual situation, that is, the sorrounding environment seen by the unit at the time of inclusion.
    This means, if Homey is kept stationary and units are included in turn using a temporary setup and then moved to their final destination, the information kept in the central controller (Homey) is totally wrong...

    The z-wave protocol includes automatic adjustment of the table describing the mesh - but this takes some time, at the process is based how often the communication fails and only when this happens so-and-so-much is the table updated (as Homey does not seem to have the option of forcing it to update the network).

    Therefore, the most reasonable way to build the z-wave mesh must be, that you mount nodes in their final position and add 50 meters of extension cord to Homey and take a tour in the building placing Homey just next to the unit when including it...
    (The extension cord is to avoid having to unplug Homey again and again and have to wait for rebooting ;-)).

    Let me know if you think I'm completely wrong - I'll edit the post accordingly to avoid sharing wrong advices :-)

    Chr.
    This is the exact advice I gave in multiple topics... only change: I use a powerbank connected to Homey... no cables!
  • RuudvBRuudvB Member
    edited August 31
    Although I did not read the book, I figured something like this... So to do things right from the first day, take your homey on a tour around your house when installing new z-wave modules. I also use a power bank as UPS, so no problem there.

    But, like many others I did not know this when I started out with homey. Since the "automatic" table-rebuilt / healing does not really seem to work (at least for me), I'm left with the only choice to start all from scratch... meaning:
    - delete all modules from z-wave settings > 25 modules, or even better do a full factory reset of homey
    - have to redesign all my flows since module ID's will change

    Then there is another catch I ran into. WiFi reception of homey should be (very) good at the point of inclusion. Since I use 2 different WiFi nodes around my house and homey only connects only to 1, reception is a real issue at some locations.

    So, what to do? I would really like a table-rebuilt function in the z-wave settings. What are the issues why we don't already have such a function? Besides Athom having other priorities.
  • danonedanone Member
    edited August 31

    This is the exact advice I gave in multiple topics... only change: I use a powerbank connected to Homey... no cables!

    Oh, man! Hate to say this but sometimes my wife is right. I am full with ideas but none of the good (except of buying a Homey...) 
    And when I think that I have a nice 24A/hour powerbank which I could have used instead of having 4x5m USB cables joint together. :#
  • cbhcbh Member
    @TedTolboom: And now I understand the rationale, why I should have followed the advice... And powerbank... So simple, yet so far away when stuck on the wrong side of the transformer ;-)

    @RuudvB: I think the learning curve when automating your home is something like "steep-bumpy-falling-pair-remove-pair-remove-pair-remove-hard reset-steep-aha!-offline-no response-reboot-doh!-reset all-steep-yes!-stable" and next day you get a new idea and everything is spoiled...
    And: If the mesh isn't rebuilt within a reasonable time, I will reset the z-wave network (without knowing for sure, more based on a oldfashioned wipe-it-and-reinstall-attitude, I think resetting it is better than deleting and possibly leave "debris" from the old network).
    Then I will start all over while I imagine the faboulous invisible structure that will immerse during the process - oh, and what a satisfaction it would be, if all nodes were consequtively numbered ;-)
  • @cbh
    Like you describe in your 1st posting, you are using homey a relatively short time. Others like me have a somewhat longer history already. Wiping all and starting over again is not my most desired option....  Homey has come a long way and in my perception is quite stable at this time. I would very much prefer not having to do all work again.
  • cbhcbh Member
    @RuudvB
    I totally agree with you - wiping etc is a very unattractive solution - however, long delays are as well...
    I'll give it some time - perhaps it will sort out :-)
  • Giving this issue some more thought, I wonder if one of our homey-app "programming wizards" active on this forum, would be able to create an external app that could start reset/re-built/healing of the homey Z-wave tables...?
    Waiting for athom looks like eternity at this time, they have other priorities....

    Anyone interested?
  • TedTolboomTedTolboom Moderator, Backer - Geek Edition, Homey Ambassador
    RuudvB said:
    Giving this issue some more thought, I wonder if one of our homey-app "programming wizards" active on this forum, would be able to create an external app that could start reset/re-built/healing of the homey Z-wave tables...?
    Waiting for athom looks like eternity at this time, they have other priorities....

    Anyone interested?
    @RuudvB guess we have to practice our patience; these are actions that are controlled by Homey's core software and are therefore not within reach of the community developers...

    Although in Emile's Software update he mentioned:
    "We have silently started working on Backup & Restore functionality, which will make life easier when migrating between Homeys, or to restore a backup in case of data loss"
    Part of the restore function would be to re-add a Z-wave device to the Z-wave network (and heal it)...
  • cbh said:
    Hi everybody,
    Homey came into my life a few months ago - and the hardware transformation of my home started...
    New all relevant sockets and switches are equipped with z-wave units (mostly Fibaro Dimmer 2, ZHC-5010, and Powernode 6).

    On the ZHC's you can force routing by setting the report association to another ZHC. I don't think this is true for all z-wave devices though. I'm using this method to get around some corners from the garage and around the house. The mesh always automatically centered around a domitech bulb that was tucked away behind a couch :|
  • @RuudvB guess we have to practice our patience; these are actions that are controlled by Homey's core software and are therefore not within reach of the community developers...

    Although in Emile's Software update he mentioned:
    "We have silently started working on Backup & Restore functionality, which will make life easier when migrating between Homeys, or to restore a backup in case of data loss"
    Part of the restore function would be to re-add a Z-wave device to the Z-wave network (and heal it)...
    I was already afraid that I was being too optimistic to hope for community devs to jump in; this of course explains it.

    The latter part I already read somewhere, just didn't realize the impact on healing the z-wave mesh... Very nice development indeed :)
  • cbhcbh Member
    But just to be sure I understand correctly:
    Re-adding devices does not trigger a healing process at present?
  • Any update on this?
Sign In or Register to comment.