Z-wave map

happyhp

Hi guys.

I would love to have a feature to map my z-wave net. Just some map over what homey sees. What connect to what and maybe some SNR levels if possible.. Have a quite big house and it's a puzzle to get everything working.

MHubert

happyhp said:

Hi guys.

I would love to have a feature to map my z-wave net. Just some map over what homey sees. What connect to what and maybe some SNR levels if possible.. Have a quite big house and it's a puzzle to get everything working.

forget it

Emile already said the don't have access to the Z-Wave chip on the level to make such info available.

keverjeroen

Something like in Domoticz? 


https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave

Fire69

MHubert said:

happyhp said:

Hi guys.

I would love to have a feature to map my z-wave net. Just some map over what homey sees. What connect to what and maybe some SNR levels if possible.. Have a quite big house and it's a puzzle to get everything working.

forget it

Emile already said the don't have access to the Z-Wave chip on the level to make such info available.

True, Athom said they don't have access, but if Domoticz has it, they should be able also.
This functionality would make troubleshooting so much easier...

happyhp

keverjeroen said:

Something like in Domoticz? 


https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave

This would be perfect and yes of course they have API access to it . Would really really be helpful, feel totally blind today when trying to troubleshoot. Is there any opensource tools to decode Z-wave protocol?

regards

Henrik

MHubert

@happyhp ;

https://forum.athom.com/discussion/comment/31410/#Comment_31410

Your welcome.

Fire69

That doesn't answer anything...
Every Z-wave controller uses the same Zwave chip (300 or 500 series), so how come Domoticz can show that map?

caseda

It might be because domoticz (or rather open z-wave) did not have to sign a NDA and figured out everything by reverse engineering z-wave. 

unlike athom who has everything legit, but with a NDA, that might make them not able to show the map. 
Like they can't log more then 10 days for nest, for example

keverjeroen

Maybe this trick will work, use a Z-stick, add it to the network and use Zensys tool. Okay, you have to invest €50,-..

caseda

BTW, If it is the same as domoticz is using, then it is not even a Routing Table. 
Even they don't have that. 

If it's only a "Neighbour" Table. 
It shows which devices Could speak to each other. 
Does not mean it is the route it is taking. 

I have yet to see a table or image which shows the impossible.. The routing.
Dynamically that is.

MHubert

Fire69 said:

That doesn't answer anything...
Every Z-wave controller uses the same Zwave chip (300 or 500 series), so how come Domoticz can show that map?

Emile clearly says;
So hardware-wise it's best it can be, and software wise we don't have access to it.

So hardware wise there's s lot possible to get range data, but the are software wise not allowed access to it.
So the routing/neighbor table is also in the chip and the chip uses it to route the data. But software wise the don't have access to it.
Its a very cool piece of graphic to show a user, so if the had access to it, I definitly believe the would build a map like Domoticz does.

Also Domoticz is REAL opensource from the front to the back. Domoticz also uses OpenZwave sticks and these sticks are reversed-engineered versions of the ZWave protocol. So these sticks have, when the cracked the protocol good, much more possibilities then Athom on the official protocol with NDA (as @caseda already said).

And using "the same chip" doesn't mean a product has the same features on every end-product. 
Most Smartphones use Snapdragon 8xx chips and phones definitely have not the same hardware/software feature set.

ZperX

On first of September OpenZwave has posted this:

Great News for OpenZWave - Sigma have released a lot of the protocol Specs into the public domain. They have pretty much opened up the protocol now to allow anybody to write software that talks to Z-Wave Devices…. Obviously this is great news for OpenZWave as well, as we no longer have to reverse engineer the protocol to make new devices work!

So that is not an issue anymore....

Banjer

MHubert said:

Domoticz also uses OpenZwave sticks and these sticks are reversed-engineered versions of the ZWave protocol. So these sticks have, when the cracked the protocol good, much more possibilities then Athom on the official protocol with NDA (as @caseda already said).

The sticks themselves aren't the result of reverse engineering, but official z-waved licensed devices. Athom could have gone the OpenZwave route by not including a zwave-chip onboard but let the user install a (specific) ZWave stick.

MHubert

ZperX said:

On first of September OpenZwave has posted this:

Great News for OpenZWave - Sigma have released a lot of the protocol Specs into the public domain. They have pretty much opened up the protocol now to allow anybody to write software that talks to Z-Wave Devices…. Obviously this is great news for OpenZWave as well, as we no longer have to reverse engineer the protocol to make new devices work!

So that is not an issue anymore....

.The have not fully opened up there protocol.

Banjer said:

MHubert said:

Domoticz also uses OpenZwave sticks and these sticks are reversed-engineered versions of the ZWave protocol. So these sticks have, when the cracked the protocol good, much more possibilities then Athom on the official protocol with NDA (as @caseda already said).

The sticks themselves aren't the result of reverse engineering, but official z-waved licensed devices. Athom could have gone the OpenZwave route by not including a zwave-chip onboard but let the user install a (specific) ZWave stick.

Reading my post back I understand the confusion.
I meant that Domoticz uses OpenZwave with the ZWave sticks. OpenZwave is reverse-engineered and so can use much more of the ZWave protocol then Sigma opened up.
In the end OpenZwave is "only" a layer between the ZWave chip/stick and the end-product like domoticz/domotiga/etc.

Homey is a pretty much closed sphere and to make it a fully supported consumer product, the have to use supported technics and not rely on self hacked protocols. 

Banjer

MHubert said:

Homey is a pretty much closed sphere and to make it a fully supported consumer product, the have to use supported technics and not rely on self hacked protocols.

True, but it is a bit disappointing that those "hacked" implementations work better then the current "supported" implementation. And as a consumer I just want the thing to work  

honey

According to the post they have opened enough to make reverse engineering obsolete. OZW is not the hardware so it does not matter what hardware is in Homey. Also there is an option to contact Sigma with reasonable requests. It is their interest to make their system a preferred over others.

caseda

Z-wave is by far open source now, the CC's that they published for public use is only 10-15% of the code used in zwave, the rest is still closed source and only get able through NDA license or reverse engineering. 

Athom needs the NDA license to offer a more reliable experience since the code can be written with the official documentation 

The fact that it "works less then the reverse engineered ones" is because homey has 1 multiple wireless protocols nearby, and 2 the rewrite is not even a full year old, open zwave is a project that already exists for many years now.

Athom is still improving z-wave with almost every update

And since the Alliance is going to push the S2 security level (not fully decoded in open zwave!, maybe yet) to be included for being able to get a license for devices in 2017, athom definitely choose the right way with going the official route. 

MHubert

honey said:

According to the post they have opened enough to make reverse engineering obsolete.

But we (for now or atleast I) don't know what and how the opened it.
If its only a API (extension) to more commands, then its still the question if neighbour data/etc is open/available.

For example Vera(3) has build there own layer ontop of the Z-Wave protocol so its possible to keep track on thing happing in/on the network. So the had in the past also troubles to get certain things to work.

happyhp

ha! It's coming

Herman2604

So , first this is a old post, but not closed so im gonna make a comment/question.

I read today on the official website from AEOTEC , a how to installl the Zwave stick  on Domoticz and selecting OPENwave protocol.
Isnt that a breach of the NDA aswell, i assume a big company like AEotec had to sign one ?