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Setting up a context-sensitive remote

2

Comments

  • @Aljoen: Cool, thank you! Definitely appreciate it!

  • theohesse said:
    @Fire69: But can the Harmony also control your lights (let's be honest, the Hue control is a joke), heating, toaster, shades and everything else in your home? No, it can't. So why use another remote for these things when everything could just be controlled by Homey, your voice and one simple remote that is context-sensitive?

    It can in fact control Hue, but that doesn't matter if Homey would support Harmony.
    You could use your Harmony to activate 'Watch Movie', Homey would notice that through the api, and while your Harmony is switch your media devices, Homey could turn off the lights, turn up the heat, whatever you want...

    Aljoen said:
    For me would be great if homey can activate the Logitech scenes by voice. Then I have best of two worlds...

    Yep, that would be great! :-)

    theohesse said:
    I would think so because you would just use Homey and the devices, so Homey should always be aware of what is going on with your TV and other devices (because it sent the last commands that affected those devices).

    But what remote would you be using then? No remote? Or as you mentioned before, a 'homey controlled' remote? What remote would that be then? I just don't see what you have in mind here. Can you elaborate a little? :-)

  • @Fire69: See, that's my problem, why would you want to use your Harmony for "Watch Movie" and Homey for lights and other stuff when Homey already can handle both. It can turn on the TV, change the input to ATV (or whatever) and control the lights at the same time. You would just have to recreate these "scenes" in the Homey app but that shouldn't be a problem. I just don't see why I would still want to use the Harmony when Homey can basically speak to the same devices in the very same way (besides IR, most modern entertainment devices can be controlled via Wifi or Bluetooth anyway). As for the remote, I would love to "reprogram" the new Apple TV remote because it has everything you need for pretty much every scenario if you make it context-sensitive but I could understand if that is not possible. But that was one of my initial questions if someone knows of an elegant, simple remote that is similar to the ATV remote but can be used with Homey. In a world where this is possible, you have your voice and one simple remote to control absolutely everything in your home and for me personally, that would be a smart home. Without that, you can control your entertainment system with a Harmony or a lot of remotes and control all other things in your home with Homey and some more remotes (you probably would want to have a backup control solution besides your voice for your lights, heating, toaster, shades and stuff).

  • @theohesse: I had an ATV2, and I hated the remote. :-) Four buttons? Seriously!? What the hell can you do with that...

    The way I see it working is like this:

    • You create your activities in the Harmony app (you need a Harmony with a Harmony Hub, if your Ultimate is a standalone I understand your frustration...)

    • You 'pair' Homey and the Harmony Hub, this way Homey knows about your activities

    • Now you can say 'Hey Home, let's watch a movie' (or whatever). And Homey start that activity.

    • If you want, you can create a flow that controls a lot of other stuff when you start that activity.

    The advantage?

    • When you want to use it, you have a decent remote (maybe not your Ultimate, don't know that one). You have all the buttons available that you want/need. How are you going to change channels with your ATV remote? Channel up/down 50x?? :-/

    • When you don't want to use the remote, Homey can do it for you by voice

    The way I see it, the Harmony wouldn't be anything else than any other device. Hue, Sonos, KaKu, Z-wave, ...

    Homey is an integrator, not a replacer. To me at least :-)

  • @Fire69: Looks like we feel differently about our remotes! ;-) However, I definitely understand that way of thinking but since it doesn't look like they will include Harmony support, I was looking for a solution that is Harmony-like and available. And since Homey can already control your TV and all the other entertainment devices, why not use it for that task too?! However, I might have to look into the Neeo a little more, that is pretty close to what I want, just without all the automation, which I don't get. I will probably end up with a Homey and a Neeo, which is actually what I wanted to avoid.
    By the way, in my opinion, if Homey would only be an integrator and not a replacer, that would mean it would have a lot of useless radio technologies since it would only have to talk to the hubs and bridges. Because it is basically able to speak to all those devices directly, I see it more as a total replacement. But I guess that's wishful thinking. :-) I probably have to create my own product and take it to Kickstarter for what I want. ;-)

  • 339$ for the Neeo? If I were you, I'd first try the Harmony Smart Control for 65€ (if you wait for a promo at Amazon) :-P
    With the Neeo, you'll have the same situation, except that there are indeed only a few buttons on it, like the ATV.

    You're right, Home isn't just an integrator, it's a combination.
    It integrates things like Hue (I wouldn't want it to replace my Hue hub) but it replaces controllers for z-wave/zigbee/kaku/...
    It's the best of both worlds (hopefully! :-P)

  • I paid $349 for the Harmony Ultimate (that I hate), so money is not an issue in this case. ;-) I will probably give the Neeo a shot but I still hope that Homey will (truly) support a physical remote in the future. I am a fan of clean design and few devices with few eco systems but I understand that this is just my opinion. :-)

  • Wow that thread exploded since (my) yesterday. I am with theohesse (beside buying neeo), if as replacement I need a remote but also as an integrator. So in all cases it need to well support a remote in whatever way, and easiest as alternative or better in addition is a software digital one

  • Fire69 said:

    The way I see it working is like this:

    • You create your activities in the Harmony app (you need a Harmony with a Harmony Hub, if your Ultimate is a standalone I understand your frustration...)

    • You 'pair' Homey and the Harmony Hub, this way Homey knows about your activities

    • Now you can say 'Hey Home, let's watch a movie' (or whatever). And Homey start that activity.

    • If you want, you can create a flow that controls a lot of other stuff when you start that activty.

    Hear, hear ... Totally what I hope to do with Homey and my Harmony Hub. Hopefully the community will come up with a Harmony Hub app that talks over WiFi {my hub is in a closed cabinet).

  • Looks like a lot of us want an actual remote as a companion to our Homey, maybe in different ways, but the demand is there, let's hope @Emile and his crew are listening. :-)

  • compadre said:
    Wow that thread exploded since (my) yesterday. I am with theohesse (beside buying neeo), if as replacement I need a remote but also as an integrator. So in all cases it need to well support a remote in whatever way, and easiest as alternative or better in addition is a software digital one

    I hate 'digital' remotes :-)
    I can use the Harmony app now, but I don't like using it, there is no feedback. A normal remote yoi can pick up without looking at it and still know where the buttons are :-) > Phuturist said:

    Fire69 said:

    Hear, hear ... Totally what I hope to do with Homey and my Harmony Hub. Hopefully the community will come up with a Harmony Hub app that talks over WiFi {my hub is in a closed cabinet).

    I think wifi is the only way of talking to it, unless you use the actual remote.

    theohesse said:
    Looks like a lot of us want an actual remote as a companion to our Homey, maybe in different ways, but the demand is there, let's hope @Emile and his crew are listening. :-)

    +1 :-)

  • Fire69 said:

    Hear, hear ... Totally what I hope to do with Homey and my Harmony Hub. Hopefully the community will come up with a Harmony Hub app that talks over WiFi {my hub is in a closed cabinet).

    I think wifi is the only way of talking to it, unless you use the actual remote.

    I believe you can talk to the Harmony Hub through IR, RF and Wifi. Homey supports IR and Wifi but IR is not gonna work for me as the Hub is in a closed cabinet.

  • For me neither, my hub is in another room :-P

  • Guess i will wait first to see what (existing) remote solution will work best with homey then ;)

  • Aljoen said:

    An other remote i would like to use with Homey (instead of my old harmony) is Spin ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spinremote/spin-remote-the-simplest-most-personal-remote-ever/description)
    With this you can not only operate your TV, Music but also lights in a simple way....

    That could also use a separate request thread as they come more near to shipping. Hopefully March. Also plan to get one and would be nice to let homey and spin speak to each other
  • Aljoen said:

    An other remote i would like to use with Homey (instead of my old harmony) is Spin ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spinremote/spin-remote-the-simplest-most-personal-remote-ever/description)
    With this you can not only operate your TV, Music but also lights in a simple way....

    That could also use a separate request thread as they come more near to shipping. Hopefully March. Also plan to get one and would be nice to let homey and spin speak to each other
  • Fire69 said:

    The way I see it working is like this:

    • You create your activities in the Harmony app (you need a Harmony with a Harmony Hub, if your Ultimate is a standalone I understand your frustration...)

    • You 'pair' Homey and the Harmony Hub, this way Homey knows about your activities

    • Now you can say 'Hey Home, let's watch a movie' (or whatever). And Homey start that activity.

    • If you want, you can create a flow that controls a lot of other stuff when you start that activty.

    Hear, hear ... Totally what I hope to do with Homey and my Harmony Hub. Hopefully the community will come up with a Harmony Hub app that talks over WiFi {my hub is in a closed cabinet).


        Fully agree. The function from the harmony hub/ultimate to go through the closed cabinet makes that I want to keep my logitech product next to Homey
  • Wow, looks pretty amazing! Thank you very much for pointing me/us to it! :-)

  •     Fully agree. The function from the harmony hub/ultimate to go through the closed cabinet makes that I want to keep my logitech product next to Homey
    I solved the 'My devices are in a closed cabinet'-questionaire by using a Marmitek Invisible Control device. In Dutch I wrote a piece about it: http://www.domotica.center/tv-apparatuur-uit-zicht-brengen/

    Short description in English: The Marmitek invisible control receiver can be used to stick to your tv, it receives your IR communications and transfers it over a small wire to a sender behind the wall or in the closed cabinet. The sender sends the IR signal to your otherwise unreachable devices.
    Might be interesting for you too.
  • honey said:
    I wonder how that works.  How can it know if you are pointing at your tv, blueray, settop box, ps4, ... when they are all right next to each other?
    Seems to good to be true...
  • jorden said:

        Fully agree. The function from the harmony hub/ultimate to go through the closed cabinet makes that I want to keep my logitech product next to Homey
    I solved the 'My devices are in a closed cabinet'-questionaire by using a Marmitek Invisible Control.
    Yeah, I used to own one of those as well but I sold it once I got the Harmony Hub. It became obsolete when I started using RF and Wifi to control the devices. That's the whole point, I dont wanna rely on IR anymore.
  • Ok, stil intrested in the Homey.

    But what i read here there isnt or coming any support for examble a harmnoy remote!!! is that right??

    So i could switch on my tv and home cinema by homey, but after that i cant use my harmony (where i can control all my tv cd homecinama with one remote) because the harmony still thinks the tv is off.  So in fact i have to go back to all my older remotes for every single divice i have?? back to 4 remotes on my table then.

    If this is true, i think really homey/athom missing a big point in there view about home control. Why the hell i would use then to switch my tv on with my homey.

    Correct me when iam wrong :smile:  
  • theohessetheohesse Member
    edited January 2016
    Unfortunately, you are a 100% correct at the moment.
    I don't see the logic behind that either but that's what the situation looks like right now, hopefully this will change pretty soon.
    Let's get @Emile to rethink that!
  • theohesse said:
    Unfortunately, you are a 100% correct at the moment.
    I don't see the logic behind that either but that's what the situation looks like right now, hopefully this will change pretty soon.
    Let's get @Emile to rethink that!
    No, this is not entirely correct. Athom stated that it's not developing a Harmony app but the community can still pick this up once the Homeys get shipped. If there is an app that sends the commands to the Harmony hub (preferably over WiFi) your Harmony remote will be in sync. You might even be able to learn the IR commands that the Harmony remote sends to the hub of your hub of not in a closed cabinet and you would not even need an app at all.
  • Note that both Homey and Harmony support IFTTT. So even without a dedicated Harmony app, there should already be quite a lot you can do... although you need to create activities in the Harmony hub for all of it. Then the flow that Fire69 describes above, should already work... and all the actual device control is in the hands of the Harmony, so it (and not Homey) keeps track of what's on and off, and using the Harmony remote will still work as always.
    The only thing I haven't figured out yet, is how to be able to tell Homey to turn everything off. The Harmony remote has an "off" button that does this, but for Homey to be able to do it, I would need to have an activity for it... and as yet I am unable to figure out how to create such an activity.

  • Community-App: That would mean that someone from the community would be willing and able(!) to develop that app and you definitely can't give Athom credit if that should happen (as they should just do it themselves).
    I am pointing again at all the remotes on the table in the Kickstarter video (and Athom's related claim)!
    IFTTT: Have you ever worked with IFTTT? It's unstable as hell. Not a valid option.
  • theohesse said:
    Community-App: That would mean that someone from the community would be willing and able(!) to develop that app and you definitely can't give Athom credit if that should happen (as they should just do it themselves).
    I am pointing again at all the remotes on the table in the Kickstarter video (and Athom's related claim)!
    IFTTT: Have you ever worked with IFTTT? It's unstable as hell. Not a valid option.
    What you want to do is for Homey to support a device they do not currently support. In the kickstarter video, they used no remotes, because they did everything via voice/app. This is still possible. What you want to do is use both Homey and Harmony simultaneously, something that Athom never promised. 

    I do believe (since there is a lot of demand for this apparently), an app will be made in the not-too-distant future.
  • But like @Emile mentioned a couple of times, they actually don't suggest to use voice control for AV equipment.
    He even said that he thinks the TV remote is the best TV remote, that's like saying the best way to turn on the lights is to use the light switch (hint: it's not true).
    Since this is a community driven project (and paid by the community), why not give the community what they want (as you mentioned, the demand for this is there)?
    I don't see why someone from the community should be this app if we all pay Athom for this product (and it's not exactly cheap compared to other competitive products).
  • EmileEmile Administrator, Athom
    That's not true. I said that voice control isn't suites for browsing channels (zapping). I use Homey definitely to turn on my TV, put on the news automatically at eight, switch to my Xbox hdmi input etc. 

This discussion has been closed.