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Using Homey as security alarm system

24

Comments

  • YamahaaYamahaa Member
    If you use 433 in this case there is the problem that de smoke allarm  wil spamm the frequency at the moment the give an allarm. So the 433 is during the allarm situation almost unusable in your home.
  • mruitermruiter Member

    There are also z-wave sirens for inside and outside like these

    http://www.domotica-shop.nl/aeon-labs-aeotec-z-wave-plus-sirene-met-back-up-batterij--p-16719.html

    https://www.betaalbare-domotica.nl/popp-buiten-sirene.html


  • Fire69Fire69 Member
    If I'm correct, you can't force a smoke detector to sound the siren when there's no smoke detected. Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be mistaken :smile: 
  • YamahaaYamahaa Member
    edited January 2016
    But gives a big problem because the most of these detectors inform the other ones in there own frequentie f.a. 433. They spam the frequency with there own signal. Put them off can be a big problem. To use them as een sounder is very bad idea. Use them where they're meant for.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey Member
    mistercage said:
    Earl_Grey said:
    PimBliek said:
    ...I just want basic protection against burglars and that does work with Z-Wave...

    How will it protect you against burglars?
    Little minions will come out of the Homey and kick some @ss...
    No seriously, It will not protect against burglars, but youbwill be notified. This is what I have in mind for my system as well. Police and such nowadays don't not respond very quickly. Better is to have a system in place which you can monitor yourself and if needed call the police yourself once you'v verified via an ip cam..
    Thanks for the obvious ;) I actually meant in a sarcastic manner. But you are correct, people should understand that an alarm system is not protecting you against burglars. Locks do. Or vicious pitbulls.
  • DieterKoblenzDieterKoblenz Member
    Fire69 said:
    If I'm correct, you can't force a smoke detector to sound the siren when there's no smoke detected. Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be mistaken :smile: 
    You are incorrect ;) Several 433mhz smoke detectors (I have two) can be triggered to "panic". This feature is mainly used to "link" smoke detectors (ie smoke detector detects smoke on first floor, also sets alarm on all the other floors)

    http://www.firealert.nl/rookmelders/draadloos-koppelbare-rookmelders/fa-koppelbare-rookmelders-3stuks?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=products&gclid=COi_sIi8q8oCFQnncgodMbUKhQ

    Problem is that overlapping 433mhz signals could trigger the alarm. I've had two unwarranted alerts in the past five months (luckily during daytime).
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    @Fire69 ;
    As far as its not possible to let a Fibaro Smoke Sensor sound its siren by changing a setting. I just read the manual and the sensor should go in Alarm mode if the measured temperature is bigger then parameter 81. So probably you can force/tweak the smokesensor to go in alarm mode by manipulating the measured temperature. 

    So if parameter 81 is set to 45°c and the FlowEditor of Homey can set "MeasuredTemperature" to 50°c, then the siren may go on.

    If FrontDoorSensor = Triggered and HomeStatus == Away, Then Set "MeasuredTemperature" All SmokeSensor to 50°c

    Here's a paragraph from the Fibaro Smoke Sensor manual;

    Apart from detecting smoke presence, Fibaro Smoke Sensor can detect fire by recording a rapid temperature rise. Temperature alarm threshold is user defined (parameter 81). Temperature alarm is signaled by the LED signaling diode blinking red and an intermittent sound signal.

    The Vera's can change these MeasuredTemperature value's, so I hope is also possible with Homey('s FlowEditor).

  • keverjeroenkeverjeroen Member
    I've read a lot about people who do use the (433mhz) smoke detectors as a siren (panic mode) on the Domoticz forum: https://www.domoticz.com/forum/
  • RobertLijkendijkRobertLijkendijk Member
    MarcoF said:
    @Fire69 ;
    As far as its not possible to let a Fibaro Smoke Sensor sound its siren by changing a setting. I just read the manual and the sensor should go in Alarm mode if the measured temperature is bigger then parameter 81. So probably you can force/tweak the smokesensor to go in alarm mode by manipulating the measured temperature. 

    So if parameter 81 is set to 45°c and the FlowEditor of Homey can set "MeasuredTemperature" to 50°c, then the siren may go on.

    If FrontDoorSensor = Triggered and HomeStatus == Away, Then Set "MeasuredTemperature" All SmokeSensor to 50°c

    Here's a paragraph from the Fibaro Smoke Sensor manual;

    Apart from detecting smoke presence, Fibaro Smoke Sensor can detect fire by recording a rapid temperature rise. Temperature alarm threshold is user defined (parameter 81). Temperature alarm is signaled by the LED signaling diode blinking red and an intermittent sound signal.

    The Vera's can change these MeasuredTemperature value's, so I hope is also possible with Homey('s FlowEditor).

    Wouldn't it be easier to modify parameter 81 just for a short amount of time? Otherwise you will get weird graphs when reading temperature 
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    @RobertLijkendijk ;
    I don't know if its easier, but its definitely a option! But changing Device Parameters cause a reconfiguration of the device,results in network traffic and you need the device to wake-up(battery devices only wake-up once a X minutes/hours)

    Also I won't use the tempsensors of a SmokeSensor because in most cases the are mounted on the ceiling, which isn't a good location for temperature  measuring. All my NetAtmo temp. sensors are place at a height between 60-120cm above ground and away from heat sources.

    About the graph, that's definitely true!
  • MarcelKuijperMarcelKuijper Member
    edited January 2016
    https://www.woonveilig.nl

    Way cheaper, and... There's an app for that
    There is a reason for it to be cheaper,  i beleve its none certified (not in anyway possible with a wireless keypad) and rubbish, im talking about a certified security system that has the capeability of informing a certified security company, im not talking about sms txting to a cellphone or a weird call-centre of the panel it self.

    I work in this business and install these satel panels my self, woonveilig is in no way comparable with satel, also they have an app.

    also if u think u have something better or comparable at leased do some research..
  • DaneeDeKruyffDaneeDeKruyff Member

    Who said it was better or comparable? I was just giving an option.

  • MarcelKuijperMarcelKuijper Member
    U gave the impression that u thought it was.
  • DaneeDeKruyffDaneeDeKruyff Member
    lol, no you have misinterpreted.
  • MarcelKuijperMarcelKuijper Member
    Im sorry then, but still i preffer proffesional equipment if it come to home security :)
  • rob_houwelingrob_houweling Member
    I prefer something over nothing ;)
  • mistercagemistercage Member
    rob_houweling said:
    I prefer something over nothing ;)
    +1 
  • d3raxd3rax Member
    Okay, I'm confused now. I thougt it would be possible to connect some fibaro smoke detectors, motion sensors and window sensors and may a z wave flasher and then make a flow in homey that triggers the smoke detectors and the flasher when you are not home and motion is detected.

    This should already be possible with homey, right now??????

    I dont want to be negative, still think homey is very promissing, but im glad I supressed my initial urge of ordering. Because right now I read alot of possibilities, but at the moment few things seem to really work or be possible at all.....

    I hope some user reviews will show up, with some good tests with different sensors and flow setups.
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    edited January 2016
    @d3rax;
    As far as i know its not possible, with the current zwave smoke sensors on the market, to sound the siren with a simpel command. So its not a Homey shortcoming, its a sensor design issue.

    Also for now its not possible to create some simpel alarm functions with homey like;
    If home status change to away, then arm all security sensor
    and
    If motion detected on armed window/door sensor and home status is away, then sound zwave siren

    For now you need to make a group of flows with the FlowEditor for every security sensor that necessary for your alarm system;
    1. If sensor frontdoor is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    2. If sensor backdoor is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    3. If sensor kitchenwindow is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    4. If sensor Bathroomwindow is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    5. If sensor Bedwindow1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    6. If sensor Bedwindow2 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    7. If sensor Bedwindow3 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    8. If sensor VeluxWindow1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    9. If sensor VeluxWindow2 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    10. If sensor shedddoor1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    11. If sensor garagedoor1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    These flow you need to disable/enable based on the house status.
    So if the house is occupied, you disable all these flow and when all persons left the house you need to enable these flow.

    A big house needs 10-15 flows and 1 (maybe 2) flows to enable/disable all these flows.

    Not really user friendly....
  • JacobJacob Member
    @d3rax, dont be confused you can connect all these devices to Homey, you will be able to create flow's to contro and monitor theml. In addition in time you will be able to enjoy a nice user interface taylored to your spesifications. You will, however, not have a secure safety system nor be able to perform e.g. accurate temperature control. If you want that there is equipment designed, dedicated and most likely certified for these task's. With the right interface your Homey can interface with them and this is where the fun starts and you will be able to really automate your home
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    Common guys.... Domotica can do everything!

    Do you need a certified alarm system, don't buy Homey. (Go for Galaxy)
    Do you need a certified fire alarm, don't buy Homey. (Go for Siemens XC10)
    Do you need a dedicated sunscreen system, don't buy Homey. (Go for Somfy RTS sun/wind)
    Do you need a professional weatherstation, don't buy Homey. (Go for a Davis WeatherStation)
    etc etc.

    Homey can do it all, but for now its misses some fundamental features. Now its very time consuming because you need to build 10-15 flows.

    Domotica is, compared to sector specific/dedicated/design professional stuf, toy level.

    I do not need a €2500 installed, certified, wired system.
    I want to play and it need to work/warn us so we can decide if we (not) enter our home after a alarm notification.

    Now it works without a hitch with my Vera, but i'm going to mis some features in Homey to get it work as i want to.
  • phil_sphil_s Member
    edited January 2016
    The Popp Smoke/Siren Sensor has a separate Siren with a Different sound than the firealarm and can be used for Security with window/door Sensors and motion Sensors!

    so it is possible:
    http://www.popp.eu/products/sensors/smoke-sensor/
  • d3raxd3rax Member
    MarcoF said:
    @d3rax;
    As far as i know its not possible, with the current zwave smoke sensors on the market, to sound the siren with a simpel command. So its not a Homey shortcoming, its a sensor design issue.

    Also for now its not possible to create some simpel alarm functions with homey like;
    If home status change to away, then arm all security sensor
    and
    If motion detected on armed window/door sensor and home status is away, then sound zwave siren

    For now you need to make a group of flows with the FlowEditor for every security sensor that necessary for your alarm system;
    1. If sensor frontdoor is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    2. If sensor backdoor is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    3. If sensor kitchenwindow is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    4. If sensor Bathroomwindow is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    5. If sensor Bedwindow1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    6. If sensor Bedwindow2 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    7. If sensor Bedwindow3 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    8. If sensor VeluxWindow1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    9. If sensor VeluxWindow2 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    10. If sensor shedddoor1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    11. If sensor garagedoor1 is triggered, then sound zwave siren
    These flow you need to disable/enable based on the house status.
    So if the house is occupied, you disable all these flow and when all persons left the house you need to enable these flow.

    A big house needs 10-15 flows and 1 (maybe 2) flows to enable/disable all these flows.

    Not really user friendly....
    Okay good to know, I can skip the fibaro smoke detectors then and use a zwave siren. Setting a flow per sensor is something I would have expected, not really a problem for me.
  • tunftunf Member
    Will smartalarm also be supported? seems cheaper than woonveilig and woonveilig is going on the same path as homey as they now also support multiple protocols and triggers.
  • MarcoFMarcoF Member
    https://trello.com/c/WSY12xzt/34-smartalarm
  • WimstradamusWimstradamus Member
    edited January 2016
    I dont understand why you want alarm systems like smartalarm or woonveilig? 
    Homey can do the same with z-wave or maybe even 433 sensors. (only uses z-wave at the moment)

    as i mentioned before i use z-wave sensors (not with homey yet) to notify me on my phone if there is a breach and take video with my ip camera, also i use diy nfc keypad to arm and disarm the system.
    Those same sensors i also use tot trigger other event like; lights on/of, etc.

    the only thing i don't have is an expensive PAC/ARC (particuliere alarm centrale/Alarm Receiving Centre) i can call the police/neighbors myself, and in the Netherland police need verified alarms before the go to the scene.

    But if you have the money and/or want a PAC/ARC than i can recommend a dedicated alarm system called Videofied it is a better system that uses video verified alarms directly to a PAC/ARC (and can call the police in the Netherland who than have to respond within 15 min)
    inside and outside wireless (protected 868) sensors ,
    Battery operated (4 year battery lifetime)
    IP and or 2G/3G connection.
    programmable wired in/outputs.
    More info on google
  • tunftunf Member
    @Wimstradamus , i completly agree that this schould be the case. That is why i start this forum item. I'm still not sure if what you and i describe will be possible with homey and if so how to start/ do this. I don't like to invest on an alarm hub but would like to invest this money into great sensors instead.
  • fuzzybearfuzzybear Member

    But if you have the money and/or want a PAC/ARC than i can recommend a dedicated alarm system called Videofied it is a better system that uses video verified alarms directly to a PAC/ARC (and can call the police in the Netherland who than have to respond within 15 min)
    inside and outside wireless (protected 868) sensors ,
    Battery operated (4 year battery lifetime)
    IP and or 2G/3G connection.
    programmable wired in/outputs.
    More info on google
    Hmm not sure I would recommend this system until they fix this. http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/30/rsi_videofied_surveillance_broken/
  • WimstradamusWimstradamus Member
    tunf said:
    @Wimstradamus , i completly agree that this schould be the case. That is why i start this forum item. I'm still not sure if what you and i describe will be possible with homey and if so how to start/ do this. I don't like to invest on an alarm hub but would like to invest this money into great sensors instead.
    Homey can do this no doubt, i depends how to make the flow as easy as possible.
    if you for instance can group the (door/window) sensors on the "outside" of the perimeter and say if triggered while nobody is home (or in my case if keypad with binair sensor is armed) send notification to ... take video... flash lights... sound siren/play sound etc.

    fuzzybear said:

    But if you have the money and/or want a PAC/ARC than i can recommend a dedicated alarm system called Videofied it is a better system that uses video verified alarms directly to a PAC/ARC (and can call the police in the Netherland who than have to respond within 15 min) 
    inside and outside wireless (protected 868) sensors ,
    Battery operated (4 year battery lifetime)
    IP and or 2G/3G connection.
    programmable wired in/outputs.
    More info on google
    Hmm not sure I would recommend this system until they fix this. http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/30/rsi_videofied_surveillance_broken/

    Havent notice that, i wonder if its only for the W (i do not work that panel of Videofied)
    they say a update will be rolled out but the panels we use can not be updated ?!
    will investigate at the office on monday. 
  • YamahaaYamahaa Member
    edited January 2016
    I can (and do) do the most of the mentioned already with mij HomeWizard so it should not be a problem for Hmey. And as far i understand the flow by now it's possible.
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