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Battery backup

DropsDrops Member
in Questions & Help

Hi,

one question I didn't found an answer by the search function.

I am converting my smart home System from ZipaBox to Homey and did so far 70% of the way. Still some key devices are not supported by Homey, but this is a different Topic.

At ZipaBox I have the Option to add a battery as well as a GSM stick (security module) in case of the power breaks down and/or the Internet Connection.

Just having an eye on the power problem: Has someone solved this issue by using a power bank between the plug and Homey?

Thanks,

Oliver

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Comments

  • danonedanone Member
    edited January 2018
    Hi Oliver, I have Homey connected to a small UPS which I also fit it with a relay and a fibaro universal sensor. When there is a power outrage, the relay drops its contact and I get a push notification from Homey (my router is also on the same UPS so there is internet)
    I have at work a power bank which is always connected to mains power (charging all the time) and the 5V USB port connected to a device (not a Homey). That power bank acts as an UPS for that device. The device I am talking about is more sensitive than Homey to a power drop even if that is for a blink of an eye. But the powerbank does a good job and no drop in power if the mains fail. This is the one: https://www.anker.com/products/variant/PowerCore-20100/A1271012

    So I see no reason that it will not work in the same way with Homey.
    I shall test this tomorrow with Homey and let you know if you wish.

  • phil_sphil_s Member
    i would glad if you could test @danone ! i would order the anker powerbank if you can confirm that it will work with homey!

    thank you
  • DropsDrops Member
    Same for me. Many thanks!
  • razorfish79razorfish79 Member
    I use this one also always connected to power:

    https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01LL965CK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Connected to Homey, Netatmo and an Raspberry and an USB Hub and it works like charme.
  • cbhcbh Member
    Bought a RAVPower 10400 back in May - but my experience is, that it looses power just long enough to kill Homey :-(
    (Not happening for you guys, @RamonBaas and @RuudvB?)
    Anyway, it's probably too late to return it now, if it's not supposed to behave like that, so I'm also looking for another - and the one @razorfish79 links to is not available, unfortunately.
    Ergo, I'm also quite interested in how it works, @danone :-)
  • tb1962tb1962 Member
    @danone

    Anker does not work. This powerbank can not and power a device and be powered the same time. This is the problem with most powerbanks. Also problem with most powerbanks is that when you disconnect it from outsource it stops powering your device for a very short time. For a phone, that not a problem but your Homey will have some troubles with that
    Powerbanks are not build as a UPS
  • cbhcbh Member
    @tb1962: As if you have a device like the one @danone mentions and can positively confirm, that it is not working - or that your argument is probably in any way totally correct, but nevertheless run over by reality, that is, that although it should not be possible, it works?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a master of setting up assumptions based on evidence and argue in terms of what will work and what will not - but still, it happens that my patients insist, that even though it is absolutely impossible in any way the result could be as they tell, it works (or don't)...
  • tb1962tb1962 Member
    @cbh
    I indeed have an Anker device. But feel free to find a powerbank that will work.

  • cbhcbh Member
    Seems like you did get me wrong anyway, @tb1962, as I had no intent to offend you - just to have it clarified, if you had experience with the model mentioned - I wasn't sure... And by knowing you actually do have that model and knows it doesn't work, you save me some money and that I can only thank you for!

    So, to gather the full benefit from a big community:
    If you (as in everybody) have or did have a powerbank connected to Homey, especially in an "UPS-like" setup - drop a line with manufacturer and model and if it worked or not - if nothing else, we will end up with a brilliant list of devices not worth trying ;-)
  • DaneeDeKruyffDaneeDeKruyff Member
    @mruiter posted a solution somewhere sometime but I can’t find it any more. It was a charger with a seperate lipo battery that he was gonna build in his Homey, maybe he can chip in and report how that worked out.
  • razorfish79razorfish79 Member
    cbh said:
    Bought a RAVPower 10400 back in May - but my experience is, that it looses power just long enough to kill Homey :-(
    (Not happening for you guys, @RamonBaas and @RuudvB?)
    Anyway, it's probably too late to return it now, if it's not supposed to behave like that, so I'm also looking for another - and the one @razorfish79 links to is not available, unfortunately.
    Ergo, I'm also quite interested in how it works, @danone :-)
    Sorry. Did not had a look at, it if this model is still available.
    But I found the same model with a different link:
    https://www.amazon.de/dp/B072N2KCBY/ref=psdc_1383617031_t1_B01LL965CK

    I can confirm that it works completely without any problems to have the powerbank pluged to power all the time.
    It also works that I can plug it off and go arount with my Homey to include devices at their installation point.

    It is running now this way for several months perfectly!

    The only thing which did not work, was to plug Homey (with an adapter) to the USB-C port.
    Homey started to make strange sounds once a day.

    I use it with a active USB HUB (pluged to powerbank) as I have more devices pluged to the powerbank.
  • danonedanone Member
    @phil_s @Drops @cbh sorry guys, flat out at work and forgotten to get the Anker at home. Promise that tomorrow this time you will have the response of my test with Homey.

    @tb1962 trust me mate, I am using this Anker at work permanently powered on and in the same time connected to a device. The Anker I have at work is this exact one (an older device) https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-75-968-032
    But maybe I get the surprise and learn that it does not work with Homey, shall let you know tomorrow.
  • phil_sphil_s Member
    i can wait ;-)

  • casedacaseda Member
    be carefull though, some of the cheap power banks can load the battery and put out power, but as soon as you disconnect power to the input they will (very short) take the power off the output, this very short amount of time can be enough to turn off homey.
  • cbhcbh Member
    caseda said:
    be carefull though, some of the cheap power banks can load the battery and put out power, but as soon as you disconnect power to the input they will (very short) take the power off the output, this very short amount of time can be enough to turn off homey.
    Exactly my experience :-(
  • danonedanone Member
    @phil_s @Drops @cbh Gents, I've got the Anker and its charger at home, and the test result with Homey came out very successful. I did connect and disconnect the charger while Homey was plugged into the USB port numerous times and at random time intervals. Homey continued to run at all times.
    Then another test, I had the USB output into a professional multimeter (a very fast reading device I own with data logging) and measuring the voltage at the USB output of the Anker, I could see a nice and totally continuous 5VDC at all times while disconnecting and connecting the charger. Next test will be with an oscilloscope but I for this I have to get the power bank at work where I have an oscilloscope.

    However, I would still buy a dedicated UPS which can run your Homey and router at least.
    My "home made" UPS runs Homey, router/modem, NAS and a couple of surveillance cameras.

    Hope this helps....

    P.S. As @caseda said, cheap powerbanks could behave different and drop the output for enough time to have Homey reboot.
  • phil_sphil_s Member
    thanks for yout tests @danone
  • DropsDrops Member

    @danone: Thanks a lot!!

    Think this topic is interesting enought that Athom should think about a battery / Internet backup as well. Maybe  as a recommendation of existing products or by offering a dedicated add-on for Homey.

  • tb1962tb1962 Member
    @danone
    Thanks for sharing this info.
    Do you know any place where to buy this powerbank. It's an older one. I have an newer model and with that it absolutely does not word
  • cbhcbh Member
    Hereby confirmed: RAVPower 26800 MAH Type C (Model RP-PB058) works as "Homey-UPS" - have connected and disconnected power to the powerbank several times while Homey is connected - and Homey continues unaffected every time :-)
  • tlangelaartlangelaar Member
    Inspired by this thread, I've tested power supply using the GP Batteries GL301 Powerbank. For the last 4 hours, Homey is running successfully while pulling the main from the powerbank a couple of times! This powerbank seems to be able to charge and supply power at the same time. And does not interrupt the power when pulling the main power supply. Still have to verify if the powerbank likes being charged and used simultaneously for a longer time.
  • DropsDrops Member

    OK - the "Homey" Problem can be solved by using a power bank. One has to find the right one - due to the Internet the function required is called "pass through".

    Coming to the second topic: If the power is down the router will be down too. In the past I had a USV from APC at my router, but it is dead for quite a while and I realy didn't like it so much. Is someone also using a power bank to back up the router? Some router are said to work with 5V too, but with my FritzBox I am not sure. Anyone using a power bank with 12V Output?

  • tb1962tb1962 Member
    Because i tried various powerbanks that didn't work and @cbh reported that his RavPower works, i mailed to RAVPower if it is wise to use a powerbank this way. They reported that although it should work with model RP-PB058, they don't suggest to use a powerbank this way. It will limit the lifespan of the powerbank considerably.

    Now we have another discussion. Because the powerbanks are really expansive ($79 at the RavPower website). So I think a small UPS would be a better choice. A UPS is designed to be used this way. And you can also power your router and modem with the same UPS.
  • cbhcbh Member
    I think it is obvious the manufacturer will not openly support the use of their product in another way that it is intended - if they did, and somebody then experience it doesn't, they'd end up having angry customers etc.

    Personally, this is not really a question about having a regular UPS-setup with Homey, but about being able to unplug Homey and go wherever in the house I am fiddling around with some devices without having to wait until Homey has rebooted before doing whatever it is I'm about to do.

    Well, yes, the powerbank is expensive, sure the life will be shortened by constant use like this, but as long as it doesn't blow up and if just it keeps a year, I'm happy :-)
  • DropsDrops Member

    Hi all,

    just to let you know my final Setup:

    I am using this to backup my router (FritzBox) and Homey at the same time:

    https://www.amazon.de/dp/B06Y2X5CP1/ref=pe_3044161_185740101_TE_item

    So far it works pefect and I just ordered a second one to backup my WiFi mesh router.

    Regards,

    Oliver

  • RocodamelsheRocodamelshe Member
    Is the USB port automatically powered?
    Have a power bank but need to push a button to get power on usb so no fun in using it as UPS!
  • DropsDrops Member
    edited February 2018

    You can Switch the whole UPS function (for 12V and USB outlet) on and off by an button on top of the powerbank.

    Once on it powers the connected device without any interruption when the main power is disconnected.

    Regards,

    Oliver

  • vaderagvaderag Member
    I've been setting up my Homey as a security system and I now find myself in need of 4 small UPS systems. 1 for Homey (5v I think), one for my Siren (12v) and one for each of my two routers (one does WiFi the other is the ISP provided one)

    These items are all distributed in different rooms of the house so a standard UPS is a) overkill and b) too expensive

    So, anyone found anything suitable?
  • 0burner00burner0 Member
    vaderag said:
    I've been setting up my Homey as a security system and I now f.......
    So, anyone found anything suitable?
    Kijk eens wat ik heb gevonden op AliExpress
  • vaderagvaderag Member
    Just came across this which looks good:
    Power Inspired 12Vdc Router (UPS) Uninterruptible Power Supply https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0187PWCLO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_E4BNAbCPE1NFP

    Anyone know if there is a way to power Homey itself with this? What kind of adaptor will I need if it is possible?

    Also does anyone know if it's possible to stick anything in line after this for controlling Via Homey? I.e. I'd like UPS -> Zwave Switch -> Siren but not sure if the.12v output would be enough to power a zwave plug or something?
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