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Z-wave associations

Hi there,

Can someone tell me how the zwave associations work.

my smoke sensor : group 1,2,3 all set to 1 
my table RGB controller: group 3 set to 60
my kitchen RGB controller: group 3 set to 1
my sensors z-wave plus : group 1,2,3 set to 1

i dont understand the meaning of it... please help !

Thanks !


  • casedacaseda Member
    edited August 2016
    It's pretty easy:

    Associations are there to let the sensor know, what data to send where.
    There has been changes when Z-Wave+ came around (which made it a lot easier because of consistency)

    Z-Wave, it is (can) be different to what the groups do. (chosen by the brand)
    for Fibaro Normal Z-Wave devices it is always like this:
    Group 1 and 2 are the singel trigger information like:
    - smoke alarm and tamper alarm for the smoke sensor
    - input 1 and input 2 for the rgb controllers.
    to control other devices outside of the controller (direct control)
    (What they exactly are for your specific device you can find in the manual of the device.)

    And group 3 is always a lifeline, where all information is being send to (temperature, luminescence, alarms, etc)

    The number in these groups are the id that the information is being send to, so most of the times it will be a 1 (the id of homey when homey is the primary controller) in group 3
    and the others can be for example the id of a lamp/socket to turn it on (or off) when smoke alarm triggers

    In Z-wave+ (plus)/Z-Wave V5 its more consistent. (for all brands)
    Where normal z-wave the groups is specified by the brand, with z-wave+ the lifeline is always group 1.
    And the other groups are:
    Group 2 and 3 singel trigger data for Z-Wave+ accepting devices
    And group 4 and 5 singel trigger data for normal Z-Wave accepting devices (pure for backwards compatibility)

    so the id 60 in group association 3 in your table rgb is probably a mistake you accidentally made
    and the id 1 to 1, 2 & 3 is a mistake still in the z-wave app that is not needed, but not "life threatening"
  • I've got a question regarding associations as well. I've got fibaro dimmer 1 and dimmer 2 controllers and like to associate some of them to control each other with the 2nd switch. 

    I've done this before with domoticz and that went well. I now tried this again with homey, and I can associate 2 fibaro 2 dimmers by defining the id in group 3 and 5. However associating a dimmer 1 with dimmer 2 (by setting group 2 and 4) or the other way around (by setting group 2 and 3 on the fibaro dimmer 1) doesn't seem to work anymore (with homey, while it worked with domoticz). 

    Can anyone explain how this can be? I thought that associations should work without the controller in between, so what can than be the difference?
  • It should work like this, and it indeed shouldn't matter what controller sets the association settings:

    Dimmer 1 settings:
    Group 1: the id of Dimmer 2
    Group 2: the id of Dimmer 2 (when you want to send both buttons to the dimmer 2)
    Group 3: the id of homey

    Dimmer 2 settings:
    Group 1: the id of homey
    Group 2: the id of Dimmer 1 (when you want to send on or off signal with button 1)
    Group 3: the id of Dimmer 1 (when you want to send the dimmer level with button 1)
    Group 4: the id of Dimmer 1 (when you want to send on or off signal with button 2)
    Group 5: the id of Dimmer 1 (when you want to send the dimmer level with button 2)
  • Sorry I made a mistake while writing my post, you are correct and I don't want to assign the first button (and so hadn't set this association). Don't know why I wrote that. 

    Maybe it has something to do with the range of homey, since this seems less than with domticz. Possibly while the heal command isn't implemented as far as I have read. So the nodes won't route via each other? There also isn't an option yet to read the configuration of the nodes, to see if the configuration has been set. 
  • Okay... so zwave plus

    Group1 = 1 is enough ?
  • @Erwin75 ;
    in theorie, yes
  • Thanks. Will try it ...
  • Most devices use group 1 for reporting their status.
    However there are exceptions to this. To know for sure you'll have to consult the manual of the specific device.
  • I'm running  Homey 0.9.3 and Fibaro App 1.0.10 for a while now, but I still have an issue with associations.

    I've got some Fibaro 2 dimmers associated with each other, which works out OK. The associations I made with Domoticz seemed faster and more reliable (I have a 2nd button associated to 2 other dimmers, and sometimes one works and the other won't, or starts but immediately dims again).

    However the biggest problem is that I cannot seem to associate Fibaro dimmer 1 modules to dimmer 2 modules and visa versa. This was possible with Domoticz as well. Associations between Fibaro dimmer 1s seem to be not working either.

    One thing I've noticed is, that one Dimmer 1 module is running secured, and the other isn't. I was under the impression that dimmer one modules can't run secure, or is it?

    That's why I've even tried to disable secure communication, and forced sending all commands (as far as I can see) by setting the following parameters: 27,1,0;25,1,0;21,1,1
    but all without success.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to associate dimmer 1 with dimmer 2 modules and visa versa. Or why it is not working for me. 

  • @LeonVanDerRee ;;
    correct, Dimmer 1 secured is not possible, dimmer 1 is using Z-Wave, only Z-Wave Plus has secure data transfer.

    In what association group(s) are you setting the id of the dimmer 1 (in the dimmer 2) and in which the id of the dimmer 2 (in the dimmer 1).

    Are you trying to sync-up the dimming level or are you just sending the on/off states if you want the sync will need to set
    parameter 18 to 1 (18,1,1) in the dimmer 1
    parameter 21 to 1 (21,1,1) in the dimmer 2

    If it works in/via domoticz it should work via homey as well, they use both the default association group assigning
  • Hi @caseda ;

    I tried several configurations.

    Currently I have:
    The id of the dimmer 1 (in the dimmer 2) in both groups 4 and 5 (group 1 has id 1 in dimmer 1)
    The id of the dimmer 2 (in the dimmer 1) in group 2 (group 3 has id 1 in dimmer 1)

    Syncing would be nice, but currently I would be happy if I could turn the lights on/off with button 2 of the other device.

    At the moment (uptime 2 hours) Z-wave (again) doesn't work anymore, while KlikAanKlikUit does. Is there a way that I can see a log, or debug the zwave module? 
  • well your configuration seems right with the id's in there corresponding groups, so it should work.
    (i assume you know what id's your dimmers have and did not use the one that were given by domoticz)

    What do you mean with not working anymore? if you look in the settings menu (settings -> z-wave) are the buttons grayed out?
    In the next homey update (0.10.*) there will be some debug in the settings about z-wave chip itself, at the moment there is not much you can do about debugging the z-wave chip itself.
  • Yes, the information tab, with the IDs in the homey network, in Homey can be found easily. So that are the IDs I used.

    About the "not working anymore" remark. Nothing was greyed out in settings, but even though my lights where on, Homey showed me that they where off and when I changed the brightness of the dimmer by Homey, my lights didn't changed their intensity. 
    In the meantime my KaKu dimmers did respond as expected.

    Having some debug(log) possibilities would be nice. 
    I didn't have time to fork the Fibaro app yet, to play with that, but my feeling is that this problem has something to do with the core library in Homey, since it looks to me like the Fibaro app "only" has gui, lots of configuration and drivers that call generic command_class functionality.
  • I'm currently running Homey Firmware Versie: 0.10.5 with Fibaro app v1.0.16 
    and have noticed many improvements, especially in speed/responsiveness with regards to the Zwave implementation.

    However the association between a Fibaro Dimmer 1 and Fibaro Dimmer 2 still doesn't seem to be possible!
    is there anything I/we can try, to figure out why this still is not working?

    I have already removed a dimmer 1 and dimmer 2 from my network, and re-added them with this firmware and set the association again, but that didn't help.
  • @caseda  could you maybe give some more info regarding the progress that has been made
  • I have no real news, I really don't know what could cause this behaviour.
    All the improvements that have been made (also in the next homey update) do nothing in the association groups. 

    Even the callback from module to homey is weird, that works perfectly for myself (only have dimmer 2 no dimmer 1)

    So please create an issue on github about it, so athom can take a look at it.

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